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E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

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Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#131

Post by diminoten »

forgotAgain wrote: post #83
blah32497 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a perfectly legitimate question. What is the parent post genuinely concerned about? (assuming he's not hauling drugs)

What is the parent post genuinely concerned about? For myself, nothing. I have to say I lead a rather mundane life. My objection is not for myself, it's for others. I don't want reporters tracked. I don't want whistleblowers tracked. I don't want government employees to feel threatened they may lose their jobs because they have a private life. For those people to be safe we all have to be protected from government tr…

This isn't an argument against privacy, this is an argument against absolute privacy.

You're not private all the time. Stop pretending like you are, it just doesn't mesh with reality. I can fucking see you walk into that night club, you did that in full view of the whole world.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#132

Post by diminoten »

RHSeeger wrote: post #49
diminoten wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrests are allowed to happen to innocent people. Arrests aren't convictions, convictions are. People still get trials. They still get due process. If the DEA/FBI can't provide evidence to the state/federal prosecutor such that a person is found guilty of a crime by a jury of his peers, then a person does not get convicted. You're saying the government is committing thought-crime. Just because a person owns a gun doe…

Of course, the recent revelations that they "do" does mean they "do".

What revelations that they do? So far all revelations have been surveillance related, and not arrest and conviction related.

No one's been provably put to jail because of the NSA's programs.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#133

Post by gonnakillme »

jlgreco wrote: post #81
gonnakillme wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It even works in the midwest! I drove to upstate New York from Chicago without paying a single old-fashioned toll a few years ago.

Do they work through Illinois? I recall them having their own system for some unknown reason, but I don't know if it is compatible.

Illinois has IPass. IPass definitely works at tolls taking EZPass; I don't know if the reverse is true.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#134

Post by Spooky23 »

fps wrote: post #71
Spooky23 wrote: post #19

This isn't news, and hasn't been hidden. EZ pass readers are plainly visible all over the place, including on the BQE in NYC and other places in NY. They give you an ESD bag to put your transmitter in. As part of 511, state DOTs also purchase cell tower data to estimate speed on highways. My understanding is that is where the Google Maps traffic indicators come from.

> As part of 511, state DOTs also purchase cell tower data to estimate speed on highways. My understanding is that is where the Google Maps traffic indicators come from. Close, but actually Google gets that data from Android devices that phone home directly to them, not from the cell companies.

Didn't realize that. States and regional transportation centers make their data (from carriers and road sensors) available as well.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#135

Post by diminoten »

tdfx wrote: post #65
blah32497 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a perfectly legitimate question. What is the parent post genuinely concerned about? (assuming he's not hauling drugs)

Your argument is similar to the "why are you scared if you've got nothing to hide?" response to the NSA scandal. According to society, we all should be perfect citizens whose outward lives perfectly reflect our inward, private thoughts and actions. But we're not, and evidence to the contrary can be used against us. But, for the sake of argument, let's say you are perfect. You don't exceed the speed limit, you don't h…

This isn't a privacy argument, you already (should) have privacy in the situations where you're not around other people or out in the open.

This is about the times when you're out on the street with everybody else. That's when you can't reasonably expect EVERYONE TO LOOK AWAY when you walk into a store, or buy a coffee or throw your trash on the ground.

It's those times when you're not private. You know, in public.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#136

Post by marssaxman »

NoPiece wrote: post #119
marssaxman wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove across the Golden Gate Bridge a few months ago with no idea that this was going to happen - last time I was down there, they still had a normal tollbooth. I was in a borrowed car with Washington plates. If they'd had a normal toll booth I'd have paid, but with the system set up the way it was, I don't think they had any way to get revenue out of me.

I was also very confused the first time a drove across without the toll collectors. It felt like I was doing something wrong, and was going to end getting a ticket. Do you know if the person you borrowed the car from got a bill? I'm curious if they are only able to bill California plates, or they have a national database of license plates.

It was months ago and I never heard about a bill. Ran into him earlier today, actually, after I'd made the post, but didn't think to ask.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#137

Post by alexqgb »

diminoten wrote: post #129
alexqgb wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be a idiot. You should know as well as anyone that simply "being in public" actually preserves a large amount of privacy and anonymity. Consider, for, instance, what would happen if any of the countless people you pass by daily decided to follow your every step, stalking you, recording everything you say and do, waiting for you in the street when you got home, then relentlessly pursuing you again when you leave…

Legally? No, there's no such idea as, "anonymous in public", and no, someone recording you in public isn't harassment. Ask celebrities. The paparazzi get in trouble when they enter into private spaces, but public spaces? Fair game. Always. And what exactly is your moral argument against it? That your public movements would incriminate you somehow? That's a slippery slope argument - there's no connection between track…

The moral arguments against it are profound: put simply human liberty and constant mass surveillance are mutually incompatible.

There is a deep and rich body of literature, philosophy, research, and direct human experience to back this up. I am truly sorry that you appear to be completely unfamiliar with any of it. If you have a sincere interest in the subject, you can start with the most widely recognized point of reference: George Orwell's "1984".

Also, regarding celebrities and their suffering at the hands of paparazzi. This is something of a special case, and hardly a situation that reflects the broad sweep of common law. But even here, there's recognition that something really awful and abusive is going on. California has already taken steps to curb the worst of it in ways that conform with existing laws and constitutional protections for the press. Meanwhile, celebrities themselves have taken to hiring PI's, who document the frequently-illegal abuses they're subjected to, and turning over their findings to the police.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#138

Post by codex »

newman314 wrote: post #122
codex wrote: post #104

Your location in a public place is not a secret. It is not legally protected. This is well established by multiple precedents. Heck, FBI agents can legally place a tracking device on your car, without a warrant if they do so while your car is in a public place ( http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/03/federal-judge-rules-fb... ).

No, it is not. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/01/supreme-court-hol...

That ruling did not consider whether a warrant is required, only that the attachment of the device constituted a "search" because the government was trespassing when they installed it (http://lippmannwouldroll.com/2012/01/28/what-the-supreme-cou...).

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#139

Post by alexqgb »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #93
alexqgb wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be a idiot. You should know as well as anyone that simply "being in public" actually preserves a large amount of privacy and anonymity. Consider, for, instance, what would happen if any of the countless people you pass by daily decided to follow your every step, stalking you, recording everything you say and do, waiting for you in the street when you got home, then relentlessly pursuing you again when you leave…

> what would happen if any of the countless people you pass by daily decided to follow your every step, stalking you, recording everything you say and do, waiting for you in the street when you got home, then relentlessly pursuing you again when you leave. I'm pretty sure what you just described there is exactly what paparazzi do. I don't believe any have been arrested for doing that . (Mind you, if they do get arres…

That's very much a special case, and one that effects a microscopic portion of the population. Were that level of harassment to become part of daily life as lived by millions, the presently tentative efforts to rein them legally in would become very serious, very quickly.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#140

Post by dandandan »

dbloom wrote: post #94
mrb wrote: post #68

In California, our toll transponders (FasTrak) are spuriously read at the LAX airport, merely for tracking reasons, not for billing. Interesting reverse-engineering of FasTrak transponders in 2008: http://rdist.root.org/2008/08/07/fastrak-talk-summary-and-sl...

It's worth surfacing the fact that California's FasTrak transponders beep when they are being read (although it certainly might be possible for the beep to be suppressed). By the way, in addition to LAX, this also happens when you're looping around San Jose Mineta airport (SJC). The airport says that it's to track taxis, limos, and shuttles: http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_14885277

They suppress the beeps on the 15 in San Diego. It used to beep at the single tolling location when there was only one (and read many other times for traffic flow / variable toll calculation) but they eliminated it now that there are 10+ points where it is read to determine distance traveled. The only place it beeps in SD is on the 125.
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