I recall a study somewhere (can't find it now, unfortunately) that concluded: it's not actually that entrepreneurs are people who intentionally take bigger risks than others. It's that they have so much self-confidence that they believe things are less risky than they really are -- somewhat self-delusional, perhaps? But hey, that's how things get done.
Fucking Sue Me (2011)
131–140 of 200 posts
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#132The fact that he closed with "It works for me. I’m not sure what the lesson is here." Takes it from another 'oh this entrepreneur has a few specific experiences and things he has business wisdom' to just funny and awesome.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The job of an engineer is to take the cost of materials, the budget, the expected longevity of the bridge, the project schedule, the prevailing environmental and geological conditions of the siting, etc. and balance all of these different variable against each other to arrive at a solution I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume that a good lawyer adopts an analogous process: they take the value of the contract, the pr…
But lawyers working in private practice, or partners in firms with a lot of power, will presumably be willing to balance risk against reward, and try to optimize accordingly. Lawyers: please correct me if I'm assuming incorrectly here. I am not a lawyer, but you are certainly assuming incorrectly. It is a lawyer's job to not only get you a good contract, but also to maximize their billable hours. They do not gouge to…
But you have a classic agency problem. It's in the lawyers interest to spend 20 hours, both because it increases hours and because that minimizes his chance of being wrong. It's probably in the client's interest to go for the 10 hour solution, because whatever risk is created by those unexplored avenues is likely outweighed by the extra time and cost.
Importantly, the threshold of risk is lower for the lawyer than for the client. Say one of those unexplored avenues requires delaying some deal by 2 days. That delay may be monetarily inconsequential to the client but is stinging for the lawyer because has advice has been found wanting, and that jeopardizes the client relationship.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#134There's a simple reason why this works for small businesses: nobody sues a guy with no money. So if you're a sole proprietor scraping by and you piss off a giant company with lawyers enough that they want to file a lawsuit against you, well, what's the upside for them if they win? Tens of thousands of dollars in expenses on their side, and roughly zero dollars in recovered costs from the business they destroyed or th…
Generally true, but often the motivation is not revenge or recouping financial loss; it's deterrence. Examples that come to mind are the MPAA/RIAA suing individuals for copyright infringement and developers for distributing P2P software, Sony suing individuals for modifying game consoles, and although not a civil suit, Goldman Sachs having Sergey Aleynikov criminally charged. All quite depressing examples unfortunate…
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The job of an engineer is to take the cost of materials, the budget, the expected longevity of the bridge, the project schedule, the prevailing environmental and geological conditions of the siting, etc. and balance all of these different variable against each other to arrive at a solution I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume that a good lawyer adopts an analogous process: they take the value of the contract, the pr…
But lawyers working in private practice, or partners in firms with a lot of power, will presumably be willing to balance risk against reward, and try to optimize accordingly. Lawyers: please correct me if I'm assuming incorrectly here. I am not a lawyer, but you are certainly assuming incorrectly. It is a lawyer's job to not only get you a good contract, but also to maximize their billable hours. They do not gouge to…
Otoh if you take away that "pay for time" aspect you end up with someone who might be likely to cut corners because they are being compensated in a way in which they are disadvantaged if they spend more time than they need to.
After all you did also say: " They do not gouge too aggressively - after all they want future billable hours" so there is some "governor" on the process that prevents them from eating like a goldfish with unlimited food supply.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Someone with 500k and a few employed certainly has money. This story was sheer luck and is only showing off that.
According to the linked story at the time he said "so sue me" he had made ~$32k gross revenue and had no employees. He made his $400k and hired the employee much later.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#137The lesson, or at least the lesson I've learned from dealing with lawyers at companies big and small, is that lawyering is a practice in making sure nothing can possibly go wrong. In a way, lawyers are the QA team for the legal world. They know that the shit hitting the fan can potentially be very expensive, so they will go to extreme lengths to prevent any possibility of that happening. But just like you cannot rely…
>The job of an engineer is to take the cost of materials, the budget, the expected longevity of the bridge, the project schedule, the prevailing environmental and geological conditions of the siting, etc. and balance all of these different variable against each other to arrive at a solution I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume that a good lawyer adopts an analogous process: they take the value of the contract, the pr…
One of them basically just negotiated his own payment into contracts. He negotiated an extra $8,000 on a contract. His bill was $8,000. What a coincidence!
Another lawyer I had was so busy she just wanted to get in and get done (this was a more boilerplate contract as well). Her total was like $200 which was ridiculously cheap. But I don't think she did much other than make sure all the pages where there.
I'm sure most lawyers want to reach an appropriate balance. But that may not necessarily be appropriate amount of risk for you. It may be the appropriate amount of billable hours for them.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#138Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#139From a lawyer perspective, a written contract may have all sorts of areas in which it falls short of an ideal in capturing all key issues potentially affecting a client. There are recitals (defining factual context), covenants (setting forth promises), conditions (defining when an obligation kicks in), and (often) representations and warranties (defining the extent to which parties stand behind what is purporting to be sold, etc.). In any of these areas, a lawyer can potentially find things that are inconsistent with what a client says the deal is supposed to be. Sometimes this happens because of unequal bargaining power, where a big company essentially presents a host of oppressive boilerplate terms and conditions as "take-it-or-leave-it" items. Other times, it happens because of what I call "slicko" tactics by the other party, where something that appears to say "x" in fact has a legal meaning of "not x" owing to the use of weasel wording and the like. Still other times, it happens because entrepreneurs are trying to cobble together their own contract by picking and choosing what sounds good from others they have seen and, in the process, failing to ensure that things don't conflict with each other or perhaps just omitting to address key legal issues by having put an exclusive focus on the business issues. Finally, it can come about simply because of either poor drafting by a lawyer on the other side or simple attempts by a party to overreach.
When you see this as a lawyer, what do you do about it?
First, the final say on such issues belongs to the client and not to the lawyer. So, after a high-level assessment, you talk with your client, explain the general range of issues and problems, and get direction on the desired level of response. Is the deal such as even to warrant legal review? Is it to be a high-level review only, just enough to let the client know what key risks exist and to address only egregious things that go to the heart of the deal? Is it to be comprehensive to try to catch and fix everything that is even potentially material, even if it deals only with issues that are highly unlikely to arise? Or is it to be something in between? This need not be an elaborate discussion and often takes only a few minutes. But it is vital to the process because it lets the client make an informed choice about how to proceed with the legal review.
Having gotten client direction, it is still important in all but mega-deals to keep a sharp practical focus in doing a review. What good is it to do a scorched-earth review and markup if the result will be overkill that is likely to alienate the other side (some lawyers who do this do deserve to be called deal-killers)? It really is poor business lawyering simply to proceed unthinkingly and one-dimensionally in every case to review and mark up everything no matter how remote the risk or how likely it is to be material. There is a dynamic to negotiations and nothing galls the parties more than to have to sort through a lot of lawyer comments over what they see as non-essential points for their deal.
On the other hand, it never pays arbitrarily to cut corners in doing a review. Just because a client says "spend no more than an hour on this" doesn't mean a proper review can be done with such bounds. If a lot is at stake, and a client is just being penny-wise and pound-foolish, it is better not to do the review at all than to gloss over all sorts of serious problems in the name of economy.
The lesson from this piece, to me, is that entrepreneurs can do well in keeping a sharp eye on the practicalities of managing their business opportunities and they should not let lawyers get in the way of that. A related lesson, in case a lawsuit ever did result on signing any complex contract blindly, is that entrepreneurs can act foolishly in casually inviting lawsuits by failing to manage the legal review process at all and simply signing complex contracts as is. The net of this is: use your lawyers in proper cases but make sure to use lawyers who have a good practical focus in addition to legal skill and then manage that relationship to get what you need from the services for your deal. In any deal that really matters, it is usually a mistake to proceed without lawyers and it is an equally big mistake to give the lawyers sole discretion in how to do the project. Be proactive and smart in this, just as you would be in making any other business decision.
Re: Fucking Sue Me (2011)
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
With lawyers, if everything goes perfectly then they just did their job. If anything goes wrong they're entirely blamed for it. Since they are paid by the hour, there is an explicit incentive to spend as much time as possible to make sure everything goes perfectly. Typical agency problem. It's up to the client to tell the lawyers when they are done. Now, the very very best lawyers, the ones who have a waiting list of…
If you don't tell your lawyers what you want, they will try to remove every problem. Tell your lawyers you want decent terms, and you don't want to spend forever working on contracts, and have them explain the risks you face from the contract the other party proposed. Failing to engage with lawyers and then not liking their results is like managers who fail to engage with software developers and then don't like the r…
you know that eye twitch you develop, when someone asks if you can fix their computer because you "work with computers"? it's similar for lawyers.
in my first two businesses, i didn't do enough [serious] transactions to need lawyers.
in my third business, i reviewed and wrote our initial contracts, which were eventually reviewed by other lawyers, but that took a ginormous amount of my time and sanity.
(for fellow people who suffer from impostor syndrome -- can you imagine walking into every meeting with a client and thinking "is this day i'm revealed as an incompetent contract writer?")
for the next set of contracts, i decided i needed a lawyer and got a recommendation from a friend of a friend. this lawyer turned out to specialize in immigration, not business; but assured me that they could get it done.
inevitably, in my first deal involving them, i landed in the back-and-forth lawyering described in pud's article (and so many comments here). i really needed the revenue in the company bank account sooner rather than later, so after 4 weeks, i gave in, and signed the contract, but 3 months later got burned.
this cost me time, money (both from the customer, AND the law firm), and many nights of sleep.
then i had the fortune of becoming friends with a lawyer that specializes in contract litigation. i begged him to draft my contracts, and he refused. he then explained his specialization was in tearing contracts apart, finding points of leverage for his client, and to a lesser extent, being involved in settlement negotiation (but not leading it).
to you and i, this sounds like the perfect person to draft a contract. to him, it's an unneeded source of liability that can increase his malpractice insurance rates. he did however, take a look at my originally-blessed contract and tell me to make a few changes, especially rip out the arbitration clauses in my contracts, because arbitration is hella expensive (it really is).
so today, i have a business contracts lawyer, an employment lawyer, and when needed, a lawyer experienced in business contract litigation.
and for those of you wondering about the cost, it's not that expensive.
i do a quick review of contracts i receive and clearly explain any industry-specific terms and practices to my lawyers, and have them do the final signoff.
i don't do retainers, in fact, my business and employment lawyers refused a retainer agreement. due to the new custodial laws on how lawyers must account for client money (after a few high-profile cases of attorney-client theft), they don't feel it's worth it for the limited amount of business i do. pay as you go.