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An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

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Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#131
post #47

This student makes some excellent points, and it's a bit scary how some things reinforce each other. Some journals, Nature being the most notable, chase impact factor above all else. The only thing they truly care about is that the papers they publish get cited. This means highly original work, which frequently doesn't get cited much for a long time, is less desirable than a turn-the-crank paper from a respected name…

That's interesting, because I've also seen the opposite problem in high impact journals, as in the Arsenic-based-life paper published in Science last year. The journal was keen to get a big dramatic story, and must have let it in with fairly minor peer review. Then it got roundly criticised after publication. I hate the way we have to 'sell' research to compete for funding and prestigious publications. But my impress…

I would say that publishing is a key point of research, but merely in the sense of "finding something worth conveying, and then conveying it to those who can build on it and use it". How many people cite you is not the best metric of success, but obviously you would want as many people to read your paper, and incorporate it in their own work; that is a very democratic measure of research value.

In many cases, the paper is not the best method of conveying information, but it works well enough for most cases that no one has managed to usurp it. Editor reviewed journals might have some flaws in their process, but it is effective enough at picking out useful papers that scientists clearly chose to purchase them and use them as a source. So I wouldn't hate the publishing cycle per say, just the fact that in those cases where it is not exactly optimal, the tyranny of the majority is ruining the day of a small set of research types.

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#132
In my three years of operation, I have unfortunately witnessed cases where CERN duties and educational training became contradictory and even conflicting. This has particularly been the case when the requirements of the CERN supervisor conflict with the expected time dedicated to a doctoral student’s thesis. Some students would become hostages, torn between their CERN supervisor and their thesis advisor, usually located in his/her remote Institute. This is a very uncomfortable situation for students, which can even endanger his/her thesis.

https://cds.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2013/27/News%20Arti...

armies of graduate students and postdocs to do the nuts and bolts work, Asaadi says. That's fine, he says, so long as everybody understands the situation from the beginning. "When you're starting graduate school, is your advisor telling you, 'Look, you get this great skill set that will be transferable to other things outside of academic physics'?" Asaadi says. "Or are you being told, 'Just work hard and there will be something or other [in physics] in the end'? It seems like it's more of the latter." He adds, "This is where we got some pushback from advisors—it was seen as whining."

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previou...

"How should we make it attractive for them [young people] to spend [their prime, most productive first] 5,6,7 years in our field, be satisfied, learn about excitement, but finally be qualified to find other possibilities?" -- H. Schopper

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#133
post #8

Can someone please change `wity' to `with' in the title? This critique is well written and was interesting for me to read, having just finished my PhD a few months ago. I can relate to a number of the issues he raised. However, I must take issue with his point (8). While I think it certainly is important to make sure that academics contribute back to larger society in some capacity, I think it is a bit premature to c…

the difficulty with 'basic research with seemingly no value' (a good example is the fourier transform, which at the time was seen as a mathematical curiosity) - is that it lacks accountability. How do you make sure that the academe that is selling their project as 'basic research' isn't just pulling a fast one on you and sucking your funds to tickle their intellectual jollies? This problem is even worse when you take…

The only accountability you can have when dealing with 'research with seemingly no value' is the peer-review and/or peer-valuation process.

Otherwise, studies on ancient history, dead languages, etc. should be completely eliminated.

Yes, academia in that sense is a set of elitists, but then again, only the elite can properly evaluate one another's jobs.

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#134
It is sad to see promising (usually young) people dazzled by the myth of an ivory tower in the sky.

Most of academia simply sets fire to money. The more given to one bureaucracy, the bigger the flame. Fusion research (DOE). Or in this case, not. It would be rather nice to see Skunk Works and or Polywell reach Q > 1, it would be one of the greatest engineering feats ever.

Also there needs to be some support for communities of art and philosophy, where those may get by better.

Finally, all profit or all conjecture makes Jane a dull girl. (Jack was out sick today.)

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#135
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, agreed. It's a youthful affliction, and it isn't specific to PhD programs. Time either beats it out of you, or you become this very pathetic, unfortunate sort of character as you get older. There are few things sadder than adults who blame the world for being insufficient for their needs.

Well that was an uninspired display of passive-aggressive ad hominem and cliche.

[deleted]

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#136
Just a thought but aren't Hackers way better at the whole pushing the boundaries of knowledge thing? I mean Is there any community more collaborative and co-operative and down right generous as ours? Tons of amazing people around the globe make tons of amazing stuff and a lot of them just open source it. By doing so they open the floor for debate, for improvement, for guidance to others to learn from it and to advance upon it.

Not to mention sites like stack-overflow where the entire community helps each other with tons of problems no matter how trivial or how complicated.

The whole world really could learn alot from us

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#137

If universities have simply become huge, bureaucratic, grant-obsessed sweatshops exploiting grad students whose churned-out PhDs don't promise them decent careers... why don't people hire some of those poor excess PhDs/PhD-dropouts and put together a grant-obsessed research startup? Beat research universities at their own game, and perhaps they'll go back to being true universities.

Yes why cant research be done in start-ups? Well... maybe its the money. Research doesn't exactly bring in money. So wouldn't that be a failed start-up?

But i do like the idea of telling these senior supervisors to f-off and taking away the talent to do some real work for which they get credit

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#138
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this a lot with new programmers that come to work for us. Many of them understandably think that some of our practices are obviously wrong and should be changed, but few of them figure out how to be effective in spite of the obvious correctness of their opinions.

Yep, agreed. It's a youthful affliction, and it isn't specific to PhD programs. Time either beats it out of you, or you become this very pathetic, unfortunate sort of character as you get older. There are few things sadder than adults who blame the world for being insufficient for their needs.

One can complain AND work on fixing things at the same time.

Re: An Aspiring Scientist’s Frustration with Modern-Day Academia

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quit being such an ultra-capitalist arse. The funding of public goods is not and should not be an opt-in system. You contribute whether you like it or not because that's in the best collective interest.

That's all fine and good until "we" decide that the "best collective interest" is to defund gradstudent's research in favor of something else more politically expedient. Then gradstudent throws a hissyfit because the collective interest is not his interest . Who's the selfish one then?

All of us.

The purpose of government is to marshal these selfish urges such that we benefit as a whole.

Whether or not that happens is a political problem. That the political system can be captured by politically expedient interests is a political problem.

Of course gradstudent should throw a hissyfit, if it is in their interest - would you expect anything less?

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