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NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

theguardian.com

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Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#131

Post by oleganza »

engrenage wrote: post #125
oleganza wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, laws, guns and police are much more excellent opportunities to abuse power and already attract all sorts of sadists and psychopaths. Second, there is no "giving power" anywhere in the voluntary agreements. Your water will be turned off only if your water supplier thinks it's more profitable to please some insured customers than not piss you off. If they turn your water off unreasonably, they risk losing client…

Isn't this just a protection racket? The water company will turn off your water supply if a richer group asks for it. That sounds like a nightmare.

Stop for a second and think why would abstract "richer group" ask for it and how would abstract "poorer group" prevent this from happening?

E.g. if the "richer group" got rich not via favors from monopoly of violence, but from efficiently servicing "poorer group", why would they risk massive boycotts and end of well-running business for a short-term benefit? Imagine if Amazon suddenly decides to print books using blood of cute little kittens because it's slightly more profitable. Would they think twice whether customers would be eager to buy those books?

Or you'd prefer a mythically benevolent all-powerful organization with guns, nukes and tons of paperwork that will create an appearance of "protection of piece and order" which you will never be able to control or affect?

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#132

Post by bjourne »

brazzy wrote: post #117
bjourne wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't employers want to hire people who have smoked weed?

They don't care what the "crime" was, a criminal record just disqualifies you. It's the same kind of HR idiocy that would forego hiring someone who has 5 years of Rails experience but did not list HTML as a skill, because HTML is in the checklist.

The reason for that is because HR departments doesn't know the difference between RoR and HTML and therefore doesn't think someone lacking the latter is capable of performing the job. Ignorance in other words. Are you claiming it is the same kind of ignorance that causes companies to not hire weed smokers?

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#133

Post by rayiner »

jlgreco wrote: post #65
rayiner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's phat to blame the prison industrial complex, but they're just taking advantage of the Puritan strain in American society. Remember, we're a country that actually passed a Constitutional amendment to make alcohol, even beer, illegal. I'm sure the DEA loves the status quo, but that's not where the votes come from. The votes come from everyone who bought into Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign. People like my mo…

The government runs propaganda campaigns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Youth_Anti-Drug_Media_... ) to convince people like your mother that drugs are the worse thing imaginable. Those people then turn around and support the government in its opposition to drugs. So why do they want to convince the public that drugs need to be pursued in the first place? If they were merely responding to pressure from the pu…

As I've said before, I think the power of marketing is less extensive than regularly believed. If the government could create demand for the drug war, then Microsoft could've made Windows RT happen...

My mom, who isn't a native English speaker, doesn't consume American media. And her Indian movies aren't being interrupted by ads for a Drug Free America.

The fact is that prohibition is a natural tendency in many societies. Whether its Jews not eating shrimp or Muslims not drinking alcohol, prohibitions have existed since long before modern marketing campaigns. In the U.S., prohibition of alcohol was not the result of government propaganda and powerful interests, but a grass roots movement, fully supported by women in particular. Just as that generation saw alcohol as an attack on their husbands, this generation of mothers sees marijuana as an attack on their teenagers.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#134

Post by rubyn00bie »

CJefferson wrote: post #119
rubyn00bie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont mean to say you are insinuating the following, but i feel it is important to say: Is that reason enough to keep them there? Isn't it better to do the right* thing at some point, than do the wrong thing forever? Should an innocent man be sentenced to death, if at some point before his extinction from this earth, we find out the truth? Asking for forgiveness, and admitting the wrong had been done, is and will al…

It is one of the safest substances for humans to ingest on the planet.... (long term smoking effects not included). That is a pretty big exception.

You don't have to smoke it. You can eat it or vaporize it. So keeping it illegal because one form of consumption, may, be harmful is okay? I think you're missing the point and focusing on one quite minuscule detail.

I have yet to read a paper that actually shows smoking marijuana has or does not have adverse effects long term.

So I say it's trivial at best.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#135

Post by jlgreco »

rayiner wrote: post #133
jlgreco wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government runs propaganda campaigns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Youth_Anti-Drug_Media_... ) to convince people like your mother that drugs are the worse thing imaginable. Those people then turn around and support the government in its opposition to drugs. So why do they want to convince the public that drugs need to be pursued in the first place? If they were merely responding to pressure from the pu…

As I've said before, I think the power of marketing is less extensive than regularly believed. If the government could create demand for the drug war, then Microsoft could've made Windows RT happen... My mom, who isn't a native English speaker, doesn't consume American media. And her Indian movies aren't being interrupted by ads for a Drug Free America. The fact is that prohibition is a natural tendency in many socie…

So your mom didn't lap up Nancy Reagan's "Just say no."?

"Just say no" was a propaganda campaign and you rightly describe it as widely influencing the population. Somebody told your mom that "pot causes young men to give up on life and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day", she didn't dream that up all by herself.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#136

Post by Zigurd »

tzs wrote: post #130
Zigurd wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subsequently debunked as an uncontrolled study. That's a prime example of the kind of research and researchers bought by ONDCP.

Citation for this debunking?

Here: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/09/1215678110.abst...

And, as a bonus, here is a debunking of a similar, and similarly widely touted study that made it into the Lancet. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900

The point is: The whole purpose of these heavily funded studies is to penetrate mainstream journals. They were hyped in the mainstream press with the full weight of government behind the press blitz.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#137

Post by jlgreco »

engrenage wrote: post #126
jlgreco wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government runs propaganda campaigns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Youth_Anti-Drug_Media_... ) to convince people like your mother that drugs are the worse thing imaginable. Those people then turn around and support the government in its opposition to drugs. So why do they want to convince the public that drugs need to be pursued in the first place? If they were merely responding to pressure from the pu…

The government fuels positive sentiment around pretty much all of its policies. It doesn't go round saying 'our policies suck' because that would provide an opening to opposition.

I don't see many television commercials for, say, the USDA's Rural Development programs. The absence of such television ads isn't them saying that those programs suck either. Being quite about it is the default position, spending many millions on primetime television ad spots to push it is exceptional.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#138

Post by fingerprinter »

It obviously bothers me that marijuana is still illegal, but I'm more upset about the lack of marijuana medical research in the past. I'm glad the medical establishment is looking into it more these days. It is just sad it took so long for them to come around b/c of the stigma.

The next thing I'm also very, very upset with is the still illegal nature of hormonal supplementation. People say free the weed? I say free the testosterone and hgh. If anything will give people longer, healthier and more productive lives, it is those.

Note: I know TRT and HRT are becoming big business in the US, but it is still quite difficult to actually get these without the right insurance.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#139

Post by tptacek »

jlgreco wrote: post #135
rayiner wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've said before, I think the power of marketing is less extensive than regularly believed. If the government could create demand for the drug war, then Microsoft could've made Windows RT happen... My mom, who isn't a native English speaker, doesn't consume American media. And her Indian movies aren't being interrupted by ads for a Drug Free America. The fact is that prohibition is a natural tendency in many socie…

So your mom didn't lap up Nancy Reagan's "Just say no." ? "Just say no" was a propaganda campaign and you rightly describe it as widely influencing the population. Somebody told your mom that "pot causes young men to give up on life and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day" , she didn't dream that up all by herself.

Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but pot really does cause some young men to "give up on life" (whatever that means) and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day.

There actually is a such thing as a stoner. I don't hate them or want to outlaw them or anything, but they do exist. Nancy Reagan didn't invent them.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#140

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #139
jlgreco wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your mom didn't lap up Nancy Reagan's "Just say no." ? "Just say no" was a propaganda campaign and you rightly describe it as widely influencing the population. Somebody told your mom that "pot causes young men to give up on life and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day" , she didn't dream that up all by herself.

Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but pot really does cause some young men to "give up on life" (whatever that means) and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day. There actually is a such thing as a stoner. I don't hate them or want to outlaw them or anything, but they do exist. Nancy Reagan didn't invent them.

[deleted]
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