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Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

theguardian.com

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Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#131

Post by res0nat0r »

rdtsc wrote: post #86
criley2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. You will be comfortably typing another critical comment Monday morning when you are back at work and were not thrown in jail over the weekend to rot.

You don't live in a police state.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#132

Post by MisterWebz »

haberman wrote: post #96
MisterWebz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can increase the quality of HN threads by replying to such "paranoid" comments with a counter-argument instead of complaining.

By engaging in a line of comments that is so far from reality, the quality of discussion is lowered because it is off in the weeds instead of confronting the real issues. One of the reasons I generally like HN so much is because there is so much expertise around that the comments often get right to the actual heart of an issue. A great example is something like the P ≠ NP attempted proof from a couple years back: htt…

By engaging in a line of comments that is so far from reality

Just because it's far from your reality doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. People are constantly bombarded with articles about the US engaging in potentially illegal and unconstitutional activities that affects a lot of internet users, so it's only natural people get upset about it and let their emotions run wild, thus resulting in the "paranoid" comments that we now regularly see.

You should take the time to show these people an alternate point of view, because your comment will not only be read by the person you're replying to (who may or may not change his mind), but also by the thousands of lurkers who don't even participate in the discussion.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#133

Post by axus »

res0nat0r wrote: post #131
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. You will be comfortably typing another critical comment Monday morning when you are back at work and were not thrown in jail over the weekend to rot. You don't live in a police state.

We do need to keep checking every few months to be sure. I never felt the need to do that 10 years ago.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#134

Post by Raphmedia »

anovikov wrote: post #128
Ziomislaw wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read he also dumped his girlfriend before he leaked (to save her from US revenge). Imagine you have to dump your loved one (against your wishes).

okay okay, i am not doubting Snowden is a good guy. I am just trying to tell there is nothing so tragic in his current situation (while of course, he risked much more). One day life will pay him back for this. And for now, he will be just fine. And there are plenty of good girls to date in Russia (and many of them are already attacking him).

He stills pretty much explodes Holmes and Rahe stress scale. Some people would have simply killed themselves. Sure, the guy has grit. Doesn't mean that he likes being there. It's a whole different life style. You have to build everything from the ground up.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#135

Post by rdtsc »

res0nat0r wrote: post #131
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. You will be comfortably typing another critical comment Monday morning when you are back at work and were not thrown in jail over the weekend to rot. You don't live in a police state.

> Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board.

Actually...no, I did think about posting it. A month or two ago, I wouldn't have. I am actively engaging in censorship. I still posted it, but I did hesitate for a while. What if I have a defense related project in the future? Will they read back to me this comment? It did cross my mind. So by that test well, it got worse certainly.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#137

Post by rdtsc »

resu_nimda wrote: post #112
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

> Ok there are lot of fucked up states. So still doing well there. > Again if Somalia did this, nobody would care. I think you've just illustrated his point...Those fucked up states? Those are the actual police states (some of them at least). The whole point is that you can't just gloss over them, that's the injustice. I absolutely agree that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but calling it a police stat…

> I think you've just illustrated his point...Those fucked up states?

But if you read my comment it depends what metric you use to compare. I choose to compare US against what other expect from US and what it should expect from itself. Also US against its historical state (now many would argue this is not looking too good either).

Now another way to look at it is like this -- qualitatively vs quantitatively. It seems to me (and I maybe wrong) that qualitatively we didn't have these provisions to imprison people without trial, to torture them, to assassinate, we weren't supposed to spy on American citizens. This was understood by the government, legislation and citizens in general. What changed is that the legal framework (using weasel words and loopholes) has been shaped to allow these things. Qualitatively one could argue these are the same legal provisions that would allow a police state to exist just by turning up the level of torture, extra judicial killing, indefinite detention, total monitoring and recording. Those are there now.

Now quantitatively. You got to lunch with your friends on Saturday to a cafe in Chicago. Should you be afraid of a drone strike and you'd rather hide in a basement? No. It is not happening. Can you still yell about how stupid the president is? Yes. But my point is, from that reality to this is just a matter of turning up the levels not really building or overcoming a major hurdle of putting together a new legal framework.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#138

Post by res0nat0r »

rdtsc wrote: post #135
res0nat0r wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. You will be comfortably typing another critical comment Monday morning when you are back at work and were not thrown in jail over the weekend to rot. You don't live in a police state.

> Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. Actually...no, I did think about posting it. A month or two ago, I wouldn't have. I am actively engaging in censorship. I still posted it, but I did hesitate for a while. What if I have a defense related project in the future? Will they read back to me this comment…

Ever since AltaVista/Lycos/Hotbot et al what you type and say online can come back to haunt you. This isn't anything new....

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#139

Post by graeme »

res0nat0r wrote: post #131
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

Simple test to see if you currently live in a police state: You've freely typed this critical comment about the government on an internet message board. You will be comfortably typing another critical comment Monday morning when you are back at work and were not thrown in jail over the weekend to rot. You don't live in a police state.

This test fails to detect many existing police states.

I lived in Cuba for a while. Many people would consider that a police state.

Yet people were free to vocally criticize the government. And they did.

The government tolerated it because they knew those particular people were harmless. It only clamped down on those that posed an actual threat to their authority.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#140

Post by maxerickson »

budgi3 wrote: post #89
maxerickson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might sound odd, but I think an easier solution is to commit to being persecuted by the tyranny. The alternatives are to prevent it or live under it, committing to the persecution should encourage prevention.

I don't understand.

A robust and open society is a better weapon against tyranny than a well managed public profile.
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