Live data from Hacker News

Poll: How old are you?

news.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 235 posts

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#131
post #66
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you encountered any agism in your line of work? Do you work with "trendy" languages and technologies or do you stick with tried-and-true, enterprisey type of stuff? Have you considered moving into management or have you always just preferred getting down on your hands and knees so to speak and hacking things together?

Another consideration is it all depends upon where you're located--geographically, company-wise, and technology area. At least in my observation. Infrastructure tends to have less ageism than development/software engineering. Large corporations relatively less than start-ups (agism in corps is usually tied to/masked by salary level; "it's about cutting costs"). Midwest/rural areas less than large metros and "hip loca…

"Midwest/rural areas less than large metros and "hip locations" (due mainly to smaller pools of potential employees)."

Unfortunately that has not been my experience at all. Aside from personal experience, I read constantly on HN about how you can walk in off the street and get a job in SV and NYC if you have any skills at all.

To say that's not the experience here would be an understatement. You pretty much have to know someone. One advantage of being in this game since '81 is I know a lot of people. A BSCS from a decent school will get you a job in midwest/rural, its just going to be entry level helpdesk resetting email passwords, or pulling cat5 cable. Probably about half of grads are underemployed, I see them at work all the time.

Not to say there's no advantages; if you can get one of the "good jobs" the standard of living is spectacular in midwest/rural compared to the coasts, and there's better recreation (well, depends on your personal likes/dislikes, etc). Culture is better, generally.

Every once in a while, I take a 90 minute, 100 MPH commuter train into downtown Chicago and remind myself why I don't want to live in a big city. Or go to a conference on the coasts, or visit Europe again. I don't live in a big city; that's why I can easily afford that kind of lifestyle.

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sliding down the other side of that distribution myself. One evening I was having dinner with my wife and her nearly 70 year old parents. Her mom made a comment that has stuck with me: "You know, we still think and feel the same way we did when we were your age."

Yeah; but those thoughts are now 50 years out of date. That's why old people feel different; they are from another time.

The older I get, the more interested I am in the thoughts of people from another time. I discovered long ago that there is far less continuity of wisdom than young people realize. There is a common assumption among young people that the best ideas of the past are carried forward while the failed ideas are left behind. This is true to some extent, but it is much less true than most young people seem to think.

People vastly underestimate the gap between their theories and reality. Experience forces them to change some of their theories to ideas that seem less plausible but that turn out to correspond better to reality. When they try to pass these improved ideas on to younger people without the same experience, they are often rejected. They sound less plausible than what they and their young peers take for granted.

If the younger people go on to have the same experiences as their parents, they might eventually recognize the wisdom of their elders' ideas, but if not, they might never realize how wrong they are and will easily pass the plausible-sounding bad ideas on to their own children. At some point, most of society can have a good chuckle at the old people's "out of date" ideas.

Since each generation faces different experiences, we have a mechanism whereby wisdom born of experience keeps being lost and replaced by plausible-sounding bad ideas.

You also have the mechanism whereby people point at one area that has clearly improved as evidence that today's ideas are better than those of the past. After all, today's telephone hardware is vastly better than the Lisp Machine of 50 years ago, so the design of HTML/CSS/Javascript platform must represent a substantial improvement on the best ideas from Common Lisp with the bad ideas removed.

No? Well then there's another mechanism whereby wisdom born of experience in the past can be replaced by worse ideas that just happen to end up carried to popularity by historical circumstance.

Just as I study how old-time engineers solved technical problems without using today's technologies, I try to study the writings of "old people" from ancient times to modern, and I try to learn from the "out of date" ideas that came from experiences I've never had. I find it contains more real wisdom than the taken-for-granted trendy theories popular among today's young elites. That of course makes me "feel different" and my thoughts "out of date", too.

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#135
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah; but those thoughts are now 50 years out of date. That's why old people feel different; they are from another time.

The older I get, the more interested I am in the thoughts of people from another time. I discovered long ago that there is far less continuity of wisdom than young people realize. There is a common assumption among young people that the best ideas of the past are carried forward while the failed ideas are left behind. This is true to some extent, but it is much less true than most young people seem to think. People v…

That sounds very interesting. Any examples?

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#136
post #60

At what age would you say you were smartest, if you have noticed any fluctuation? I hear you mental power peaks at about 22 and begins to decline after 26, but that's pretty depressing, and I don't want to believe it, so if you have experience to counter or confirm this, please share. If you have noticed any decline in "fluid intelligence," is it negligible? Does your wisdom and experience outweigh any mental decline…

You have multiple fundamental cultural conflicts that I think will effectively provide enough noise to cover up any signal.

The first one is intelligence metrics are only permitted WRT aging which makes them impossible to intelligently compare. Culturally verboten to discuss the same metrics WRT class, race, pretty much anything else. So there's numbers... and we have no idea what they mean, if anything, in the bigger picture. OK then.

I suspect there are no large collection of serious peer reviewed numbers to back it up. A vague cultural belief of "everyone knows" but no one's really measured or documented it with enough detail and repetition to prove much of anything. Or its a statistical anomaly.. men who make it to age 20 have always lived to 60s-80s. The reason average lifespan exploded in the last century or two is 4/5ths of the kids stopped dying. Therefore the avg specs over the centuries means little to anyone already an adult. Might very well be the same effect. So no data and no critical analysis.

Another cultural problem is pigeonholing. Teen screws up, well its just hormones. Slightly older, must be on recreational drugs. A little older, well, he's the new guy. Bit older, the baby is keeping them up all night can't blame him. Now he's worried about his teenagers. Same old screwup who still screws up at the same rate as when he was 5, finally reaches a well seasoned age with no excuses left, well, his screw ups must "NOW" be because he's old, LOL. Even if a graph of "screwup-full-ness" is a perfect flat line for his whole life.

Another interesting distortion is changing jobs. Generally our culture doesn't give kids big picture jobs and old people entry level jobs. Odd how their demanded performance seems to match the stereotypical expectations.

Final cultural barrier you have to power thru is the classic, teens energy and ignorance rebel against parents wisdom and experience. I donno if you're going to be able to power past that, its a heck of a roadblock to correct for. Much like a recreational sport, the "conflict" might solely exist for fun/cultural reasons. There may be no actual difference at all, but humans love to "other" each other and get all dramatic, and this sounds like a fun topic to fight about, so...

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#137
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed any speed decrement in your learning curves (learning new languages or frameworks)?

> Have you noticed any speed decrement in your learning curves (learning new languages or frameworks)? Hard to tell, but a speedup if anything. Once you know 5 or 6 languages, another one is pretty easy to pick up by looking at it. I've posted elsewhere: Most recent endeavor is RoR, and that was fast. It's hard for me to differentiate whether that's because I'm Mr Smart&Experienced or because Michael Hartl rocks. I s…

41 here. I have found the same thing. There are so many things in languages, paradigms, tech as a whole that are familiar... problems that took too long to solve 20 years ago are easier now because I know the feel of the problem, how to approach it, etc.

Pretty sure I cannot put in as many hours though. Wish I had learned to put in fewer earlier.

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#138
post #59
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are well respected around here, but your ability to sound like a douche seems limitless too.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "ability to sound like a douche" or is that just a random personal attack? When I think about high-karma HN users with douchy tendencies edw519 is not someone who comes to mind. I mean, in any account exceeding a couple of hundred posts it's probably easy to find some less than stellar content, but I don't remember edw519 ever making a post as low as you just did.

Crap, sorry about the down vote. I fat fingered my phone.

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#139
I don't really feel a huge change between 24 and 34. That may be because I don't like children, so the normal get married have kids thing isn't happening. I guess 34-60 or so is roughly the same then as well, except maybe with more medical issues, hopefully tempered by advances in medical science and increasing personal wealth.

Most age discrimination seems to be more birth year discrimination. I don't think 34 year olds now are treated as the incompetents that we treated 34 year olds in 1999, because back then, there really were not as many 34 year olds with Internet/tech/etc experience. (Obviously some, who are now largely the not accomplished people, but it was a small percentage of the population.)

Re: Poll: How old are you?

#140
post #42

58, writing more code, having more fun, reaching more people, & making more $ than ever, all of which still seem limitless: edw519's Hacker Quality of Life | ?? | ** | ** | ** | ** | ** | ** | ** | ** | ** | ***** ------------------------------- 10 20 30 40 50 60

What changed when you were 25(ish) if I may ask?

I got a job. With real customers who needed real solutions. That opened my world.
Post reply on HN