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How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

guardian.co.uk

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Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#131

Post by losvedir »

ma2rten wrote: post #128
losvedir wrote: post #109

I must be in the minority here, but I'm no more concerned now than before reading this, and I'm still not super concerned if it works the way I think it does. It doesn't answer the main question of HOW MANY USERS are being watched like this. We already knew from Prism that Microsoft is providing data to the NSA, and we already knew that it included real time video, emails, messages, etc. So this is more of a behind-t…

On April 5, according to this slide, there were 117,675 active surveillance targets in PRISM's counterterrorism database. The slide does not show how many other Internet users, and among them how many Americans, have their communications collected "incidentally" during surveillance of those targets. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-...

Oh, wow, I'm not sure how I hadn't see that before. Thanks for the info. Now to ponder how I feel about it...

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#132

Post by bigiain »

anonymousDan wrote: post #100
sinak wrote: post #53

The marketing language MS used in http://www.scroogled.com/ - "YOUR PRIVACY IS OUR PRIORITY" - seems pretty amusing now.

Someone needs to come up with a good rewording - "YOUR PRIVACY IS LOW PRIORITY"?

"(INVADING) YOUR PRIVACY IS OUR PRIORITY"

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#133

Post by lern_too_spel »

ma2rten wrote: post #128
losvedir wrote: post #109

I must be in the minority here, but I'm no more concerned now than before reading this, and I'm still not super concerned if it works the way I think it does. It doesn't answer the main question of HOW MANY USERS are being watched like this. We already knew from Prism that Microsoft is providing data to the NSA, and we already knew that it included real time video, emails, messages, etc. So this is more of a behind-t…

On April 5, according to this slide, there were 117,675 active surveillance targets in PRISM's counterterrorism database. The slide does not show how many other Internet users, and among them how many Americans, have their communications collected "incidentally" during surveillance of those targets. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-...

The slide itself says 117675 records, not active surveillance targets.

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#134

Post by dendory »

The bigger deal here to me is the data sharing. Who cares if one agency isn't allowed to spy on Americans? Or if another agency has this or that court oversight? All the data collected is shared between the NSA, FBI, CIA, foreign intelligence, etc. This means regardless of who you are or what you are doing, there's someone who has the authority to spy on you, and now they have all your data as well.

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#135

Post by ceph_ »

HSO wrote: post #112
psbp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that he's living in a google bubble? I just searched with multiple search engines, with different browsers, and even with different IPs and they all returned a link to the same effect. Different sources (prweb on most), but still the same story.

my first link on bing: http://www.prweb.com/releases/class-action-lawsuit/google-ns...

Wow, almost all of the results of 'google nsa lawsuit' on bing are negative against google.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=google+nsa+lawsuit

1) Maryland Attorney Mike Slocumb Comments on Google Privacy Class Action Lawsuit and NSA Surveillance Case (negative)

2) Google surveillance far surpasses the NSA, author says - CBS News (negative)

3) EPIC files FOIA request over reported Google, NSA partnership ... (negative)

4) ACLU sues Obama administration over NSA surveillance (neutral - not even really about Google, just prism)

5) Lawsuit Could Find Out If Google Working For NSA? For a long… (negative)

6) Conservative activist files lawsuit over NSA surveillance | PCWorld (neutral)

7) Maryland Attorney Mike Slocumb Comments on Google Privacy… (negative)

8) Lawsuit filed over NSA phone spying program - Computerworld (neutral - not even really about Google, just prism)

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#136

Post by jlgreco »

Steko wrote: post #120
magicalist wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the "they" that got "rapped" by the FTC were "AOL, Ask, Bing, Blekko, Duck Duck Go, Google and Yahoo as general purpose search engines and 17 'of the most heavily trafficked' shopping, travel and local search engines"[1]. These were reissued rules that clarified and enhanced the rules issued by the FTC in 2002 to make advertising clear. It likely came out of Danny Sullivan's letter to the FTC[2] showing how…

"maybe stick around for a while before making pseudo-hypotheses about story dynamics?" Ok I've been around for awhile and can vouch that what he's claiming happens regularly. Some links from the last time I bothered to comment on it can be found in the following: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5731329

And, as last time this topic was brought up, I feel obliged to point out that HN rank is more than a function of votes, flags, comment total, and time. The quality of the comments, likely determined by the speed and voting patterns, is also used. This, or a similar system, is also reputed to be used to hide the "reply" link during suspected flamewars.

So sure, you could blame some perceived Google bias on Google shills flagging Microsoft articles. You could also blame some perceived Anti-Microsoft bias on Microsoft shills being abrasive and causing comment sections to become toxic (for example, by filling the comment sections with comments complaining about HN rank compared to Google articles).

I see little to no evidence for either, I am not in a position to inspect the complete data to determine what is causing any perceived phenomenon (nor are you, I suspect).

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#137

Post by smegel »

A well placed (Russian) friend told me recently that the KGB (and whatever name it goes by now) still uses typewriters (yes, mechanical, ink based thingos) for all internal documentation and correspondence, and that electrical/digital devices are banned in most secure areas.

In other words, they realized decades ago that if you value your privacy, get as far away as possible from a computer, especially one connected to the internet.

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#138

Post by Steko »

jlgreco wrote: post #136
Steko wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"maybe stick around for a while before making pseudo-hypotheses about story dynamics?" Ok I've been around for awhile and can vouch that what he's claiming happens regularly. Some links from the last time I bothered to comment on it can be found in the following: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5731329

And, as last time this topic was brought up, I feel obliged to point out that HN rank is more than a function of votes, flags, comment total, and time. The quality of the comments, likely determined by the speed and voting patterns, is also used. This, or a similar system, is also reputed to be used to hide the "reply" link during suspected flamewars. So sure, you could blame some perceived Google bias on Google shil…

It's pretty clear when an article has been flagged off the frontpage intentionally on hnrankings.info and in my experience every link of the type also "just happened" to be anti-google, pro-ms or pro-apple.

Re: How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

#140

Post by jlgreco »

Steko wrote: post #138
jlgreco wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, as last time this topic was brought up, I feel obliged to point out that HN rank is more than a function of votes, flags, comment total, and time. The quality of the comments, likely determined by the speed and voting patterns, is also used. This, or a similar system, is also reputed to be used to hide the "reply" link during suspected flamewars. So sure, you could blame some perceived Google bias on Google shil…

It's pretty clear when an article has been flagged off the frontpage intentionally on hnrankings.info and in my experience every link of the type also "just happened" to be anti-google, pro-ms or pro-apple.

I have seen your links to hnrankings.info and cannot say that they make it clear flagging is the cause (much less organized flagging). Your (and others) assertions are too strong for the data that you have.

With hnrankings.info I believe you could establish a trend (so far I have only seen specific handpicked examples, not a trend. A trend is probably there, but nobody that I have seen has bothered to do the legwork to uncover it.), but there is not enough there to say that (as many have claimed) there are non-organic rings of flaggers targetting pro-Microsoft articles.

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