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Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

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Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#131

Post by johndevor »

easyfrag wrote: post #34

One thing to keep in mind is that there's more to good medical care than a fair price: Post-op infection rate - do all clinical employees regularly wash their hands before and after each patient encounter? Re-admission rate - does the institution or surgeon do enough cases of a particular procedure to be proficient? Error Rate - Are pre-op checklists ALWAYS used? Post-op care - Are supportive therapies like Physiothe…

From their website:

Wherever you decide to have your surgery, you should inquire about the rate of infection in their facility. Our rate of infection for 2006 was 0.3%, for 2007 was 0.2%, for 2008 was 0.04% and for 2009 and 2010 was .001%. These percentages are astoundingly low compared with an estimated national average of 2.6 % per year.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#132

Post by joewallin »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #22

I really salute these guys for doing this. It's freakin' awesome. This I've added to my next letter to my representatives in Congress: "Dr. Smith said federal Medicare regulation would not allow for their online price menu. They have avoided government regulation and control in that area by choosing not to accept Medicaid or Medicare payments." I've suggested that one non-controversial way in which Healthcare could b…

Publication of all pricing ought to be required.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#133

Post by jljljl »

refurb wrote: post #94
jljljl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Lasik nor cosmetic surgeries tend to be major issues of life and death, nor do they tend to occur in emergency situations where an informed decision may not be possible. Free markets and transparent pricing that work require that there not be major information asymmetries between supplier and purchaser. If I'm in the hospital with an emergency or critical condition, I probably don't have the option of fully r…

You don't think people with cancer research which clinic to go to? I know if I had cancer I dam well would.

I wasn't talking specifically about people with cancer who have plenty of time to research which clinic is most cost effective.

I stated in my post: "If I'm in the hospital with an emergency or critical condition, I probably don't have the option of fully researching or understanding my options."

Just because situations exist where you have time to research, doesn't mean you always have time to do so. And a healthcare system needs to take that into consideration, especially when the consequences can be life or death.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#134

Post by maxerickson »

draz wrote: post #61
easyfrag wrote: post #34

One thing to keep in mind is that there's more to good medical care than a fair price: Post-op infection rate - do all clinical employees regularly wash their hands before and after each patient encounter? Re-admission rate - does the institution or surgeon do enough cases of a particular procedure to be proficient? Error Rate - Are pre-op checklists ALWAYS used? Post-op care - Are supportive therapies like Physiothe…

I generally agree with your sentiment. However, here's something to consider - medical practices mostly over-charge to avoid insurance fraud. Wait, what?? Yes, here's how it works: if they were to ask you, "what insurance do you have" and then charge you differently (i.e. one insurance pays them better than the other, so they'd charge more), they'd be committing a crime. So, instead, they charge EVERYONE a crazy amou…

Do they actually negotiate deals with insurance companies where they lose money on some procedures?

If they don't, then the problem is that they want the revenue from the higher paying insurance, not worries over fraud.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#135

Post by swalkergibson »

steveplace wrote: post #48

Some other techniques off the top of my head: -- offer a "price match guarantee" against any procedures versus in-network hospitals -- offer a discount for low-risk patients (non-diabetic non-obese) who need to have surgery done -- do "bundle deals" with local hotels and/or attractions like they do with plane flights, so if you are travelling to the hospital you would have something for the family to do -- free 1-mon…

> offer a "retainer" that would lockin a price of any procedure for 5 years. Good for those who are family planning or have a low-priority surgery

This sounds to me like an insurance premium, no?

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#136

Post by [deleted] »

cschneid wrote: post #118
redler wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also important to consider that Lasik and cosmetic surgeries are elective procedures characterized by elastic demand. Having a trauma surgeon remove a ruptured spleen, or being treated for a heart attack, are situations where demand is completely inelastic. One might shop around for the best way to spend a spare $10,000 for an eye lift, but who can be expected to shop for an economically satisfying deal while in…

While emergency care needs to be taken into account, most medical issues are just not emergencies, they are merely pressing. Even super expensive, life threatening ones (ie, a cancer diagnosis) allow for a bit of shopping around, second opinions and such. So if most surgery, and near all outpatient procedures are not-pressing and possible to shop around for, why can't I know how much it costs ahead of time?

[deleted]

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#137

Post by Bamafan »

lettergram wrote: post #79
showerst wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying my comment below. The government not only allows healthcare providers to reveal their prices, it encourages it. The graf about the government is a political statement, not a policy fact, and does not belong in a news story. ----- Medicare/caid prices are standardized and public. They also release data on what specific hospitals bill for the most common procedures. http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-a…

I worked in a billing office for 5 years, there are literally thousands of codes for EACH insurance company, again EACH insurance company. The reason the cost of healthcare is so high is because medicare pays roughly 15% of a bill, others are somewhere between 20-50% of a bill depending. That is to say if the doctor charges you $40,000 you pay your 10% co-pay of $4,000 and the insurance then only pays maybe another $…

The reason the cost of healthcare is so high is because medicare pays roughly 15% of a bill, others are somewhere between 20-50% of a bill depending. That is to say if the doctor charges you $40,000 you pay your 10% co-pay of $4,000 and the insurance then only pays maybe another $8,000.

Another reason is the supply of doctors is artificially restricted by the AMA.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#138

Post by tylee78 »

sbercus10 wrote: post #73
pdx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pricing transparency, for whatever reason, does not exist as a rule in the medical industry. The "charge masters", are a joke that the hospitals themselves admit are useless as indicators of actual prices paid unless you're out of pocket, and then you get to pay them. Even then, the charge masters, as useless as they are, are still kept well hidden from all but the most inquisitive. I hope you're right about the gove…

If this topic is at all interesting to you, you should read Steven Brill's dissertation in TIME titled "Better Pill" from a few months ago. Since TIME has a paywall, here is a link to the PDF of the article: http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

yes. that's an amazing piece of research. this article really opened my eyes. after studying that article it's much clearer how healthcare can and should be reformed.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#139

Post by tylee78 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #3

This happens only now ? In more civilized countries like Germany, prices for procedures have been set since time immorial. There is a provision for surcharges from the physician, but these aren't common, and the physician will have to have a good cause or the insurer will not pay it. Same thing for new medications: they are not permitted in the clinic unless there is a genuine advantage for the patient. All this is o…

the German welfare system (healthcare included) is taxing the living hell out of the working families. It's insane. I'm pretty sure that like anything else, there is a ton of beaurocracy in Germany that loves to "list" prices. Unfortunately, in the beaurocracy side of it, the US is in a worse state. Hopefully this is the beginning of free market competition in the healthcare sector.

Re: Hospital creates bidding war by posting pricing online

#140

Post by javert »

kasey_junk wrote: post #102
javert wrote: post #89

> Dr. Smith said federal Medicare regulation would not allow for their online price menu. > They have avoided government regulation and control in that area by choosing not to accept Medicaid or Medicare payments. Obama, better close up that loophole! Wouldn't want people to find out that capitalism works in every. single. industry.

every. single. industry where efficiency and profit are the main concerns and externalities are captured accurately and true competition can exist. That is not always true. Off the top of my head the justice system and emergency service providers (think fire/hazmat etc) come to mind. Lets not let the bizarre state of the US medical industry act as some sort of straw man to support some ultra libertarian viewpoint.

> true competition can exist.

True competition can always exist unless force is used against someone to stop it (in 99.9% of cases, that's done via government regulation).

> the justice system

The justice system isn't an industry, it's a proper function of government.

> emergency service providers (think fire/hazmat etc)

As someone who has been screwed over by government emergency service providers, I beg to differ.

> Lets not let the bizarre state of the US medical industry act as some sort of straw man to support some ultra libertarian viewpoint.

Actually, lets. The US medical system is a total clusterfuck and is only getting worse. It is hard to get good medical care in the US. There is only one way this complete nightmare could have come about, and that's because people aren't free to act in their own interest.

We could never remotely approach this nightmare in any non-highly-regulated industry.

In fact, practically all non-highly-regulated industries make amazing advances over time, whereas healthcare delivery has seen amazing regress in the last few decades.

This is not an appeal to some ideology that is divorced from reality. The empirical evidence is all on my side, plus a causal explanation for the results. But liberals are covering up their ears and shouting, "We can't (won't) hear you!". As a result, my lifespan and those of my loved ones will likely be significantly curtailed.

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