Stay-at-home dad • Hacker News Board

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#131

Post by coldtea » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:22 AM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #102

lazyjones wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's society, especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights. What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution.

>What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution. I hear people from all walks of life make claims like this constantly. While I don't doubt that some use fear to purposefully manipulate us, I do not see it as the norm. The media doesn't care about controlling us. It cares about it's viewershi…

>The media doesn't care about controlling us. It cares about it's viewership.

Not really. The Media are tied knee-deep with other interests -- from the political interests (of most op-eds) to the financial interest of huge media conglomerates and empires.

Of course they are interest to control you.

In the very least they want to control: your viewing habits (duh!), your purchasing habits (ads), your voting habits (op-eds, news), etc etc.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#132

Post by argonaut » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:24 AM UTC

adrianbye wrote: post #87

withad wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of societal differences between first and third world countries and they exist for a lot of reasons. I really don't see why you would pin this particular one, if it even exists, on feminism.

i know, feminism is a sacred cow. the truth is that men tend to be highly valued in the 3rd world. by comparison in the west they tend to kill themselves as they get older: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2006/ElderlyWhiteMenAfflictedbyH... are you aware we've blocked right wing research out of academia, so these issues never get researched properly? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08tier.html?_r=0 and that mar…

> and that margaret mead was basically a fraud? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_of_Age_in_Samoa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Freeman

Did you even read your own linked articles?

Generally, Freeman's critique has not been accepted in the anthropological community. Several Samoan scholars who had been discontent with Mead's depiction of them as happy and sexually liberated thought that Freeman erred in the opposite direction [1]

Much like Mead's work, Freeman's account has been challenged as being ideologically driven to support his own theoretical viewpoint [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Freeman [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_of_Age_in_Samoa

I don't claim that Margaret Mead was necessarily right. I'm not an anthropologist. But your own sources contradict what you're saying.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#133

Post by ceol » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

adrianbye wrote: post #90

karmajunkie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, in countries where men make all the rules and run the show nobody dares look askance at a man in a public setting? Go figure.

by your statement you'd almost think people like margaret thatcher, Dilma Rousseff and benazir bhutto never existed.

Obviously the existence of a handful of women leaders means sexism is dead, men and women are completely equal, and feminism has warped into an evil movement bent on making men social pariahs.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#134

Post by lazyjones » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:29 AM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #116

lazyjones wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's society, especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights. What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution.

> especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights You're not hearing what I said. It's exactly that tradition that causes the culture of fear. Our society is designed to minimize the influence one random person has over another. One of the things that falls out from that design is a hue and cry any time the suggestion of a bad influence of one person over another…

> One of the things that falls out from that design is a hue and cry any time the suggestion of a bad influence of one person over another is possible.

Fear isn't the wish to be left alone by other people and it certainly isn't more prevalent in societies where what you describe as its cause (bad influence of one person over another) occurs less often (as you wrote).

Fear is caused by what we perceive as real and imminent threats. If we are told convincingly that certain threats are more "real" than they actually are (as with terrorism, which apparently justifies a trillion-dollar security theater), we will have this emotion more often, whether we are free or not.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#135

Post by pbreit » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:31 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #50

The part about being viewed suspiciously at the playground was particularly awful. Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and of course, child molesters and abductors. Everyone thinks that there is someone out there who is out to hurt them and their family. Like, that is the default assumption , and people…

In San Francisco, the most prominent sign at playgrounds is "Adults must be accompanied by children".

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#136

Post by ceol » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:37 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #114

karmajunkie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, in countries where men make all the rules and run the show nobody dares look askance at a man in a public setting? Go figure.

Where the heck did that come from? For example, China is arguably a very matriarchal society, and guys take their kids out all the time.

Are you talking about the Mosou? Because they're only about 40,000 strong in a country of 1.34 billion, and aren't even a true matriarchy, as political power tends to be in the hands of men.[0]

If you're talking about the rest of China, the absence of modern women leaders has been a concern.[1] I don't see any way you could call China "very matriarchal".

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo

[1]: http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/03/07/6206108-ch...

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#137

Post by pbreit » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:37 AM UTC

joebeetee wrote: post #2

There is so much food for thought in this article. Particularly liked his line "Don't worry, I'm not going to nab your kid, I already got this one." Interesting how the author felt that people could say things to him that they wouldn't say to women in a similar situation.

If he actually said those words, I think I'd be even more creaped out. Who jokes about kidnapping?

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#138

Post by ecopoesis » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:39 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #129

withad wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, men do tend to be highly valued in some countries. And women in such countries tend to be treated as property. What does that have to do with suicide rates of men in the US? And what does any of it have to do with your original point about feminism somehow causing media scare stories? It's unfortunate that politics can have such an influence on science and psychology and sociology are far from the only fields it…

> I condemn the parts of it that are transphobic, and I wonder why nobody mentions it Because it's BS? I know people in politically correct societies wont even consider it (if anything, to avoid being labelled), but mutilating yourself is not exactly, well, alright. A society has to draw a line at what it considers normal/desired behaviour and what not. Regardless if said behaviour is any harm to others or not. For e…

Slippery slope is a terrible argument.

If folks want to change their gender, then let them. Much like someone being black or gay, it's quite litetally none of my, or nyone elses, business. If people want to chop off their leg for fashion, who cares?

Anyone who says anything else is a bigot.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#139

Post by ecopoesis » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:45 AM UTC

ixacto wrote: post #126

Tichy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted, I wasn't even thinking about the paid paternity leave. Obviously if the state pays for it, the thought "how much am I willing to pay my babysitter" is not a factor. It's actually fascinating that despite full pay a lot of dads apparently prefer to stay at work? I can only assume that they worry about a negative impact to their career in the long run (ie employer doesn't think they are loyal enough to promote…

Assuming: 150k/yr salary * 0.5 (paid leave) * .33 (4 months) =$24750 for just raising a kid, damn. To be the devil's advocate, why not let people who do not have children take a 4 month paid ($24750) vacation every 5 years? I would like to take a round-the-world vacation for 4 months...

Because promoting round-the-world vacations isn't the business the government is in, but promoting good families is.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#140

Post by makomk » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 1:45 AM UTC

withad wrote: post #72

adrianbye wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this doesn't happen in non feminist countries (ie usually 3rd world).

There are a lot of societal differences between first and third world countries and they exist for a lot of reasons. I really don't see why you would pin this particular one, if it even exists, on feminism.

Well, as far as anyone can tell the idea that women are naturally better parents than men was originally e feminist one, and for the most part feminists are so attached to the idea they never even seem to really question it - after all, it's about doing what's best for the child, and why would you want to get in the way of that? (That's an actual, widely used argument mainstream feminists justify their support for the status quo with.)

I've also seen, for example, feminist mums argue that their kids' stay-at-home-dad is unfairly dumping work on them because they have to organise playdates and other social events, when that's almost certainly the result of sexist bias against dads - apparently mums are uncomfortable letting dads get involved in this, it's a common complaint of single dads. They don't even think about whether there may be gender-based reasons why their partner doesn't have access to the social circles they do.