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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#131

Post by VMG »

arrrg wrote: post #85
VMG wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is separating the cheaters from those who really deserve help. In a system where the individual can decide where to put the money, everybody can decide who is deserving of help. If you mandate wealth redistribution, you need to create a complex ruleset that decides who is eligible. The rules are established by the ineffective and opaque processes of politics and government. The resulting syste…

With a basic income guarantee everyone would get money, and the same amount. There is no need to divine who needs it because everyone does. No matter the income.

True, my argument was against welfare, I misread your original comment.

Basic income still has the problem that people get my money who do not deserve it in my opinion.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#132

Post by ardit33 »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #84

i worked at uber and twilio in the city. I was so bothered by the homeless people I saw everyday that it seriously impeded my work performance. i'd walk by them and feel terrible for not being able to help, for having an easy time making money, and feel afraid that my bipolar disorder would get worse and i'd end up like them. it was hard to function properly at work when I'd start my day feeling guilty, powerless and…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally.

One thing you realize is that a lot of the people on the streets have major mental conditions (usually schizophrenia, and major drug addictions or chronic alcoholism), and there is almost no way to just rehab them, and put them in a place that they can take care of themselves. Some of them are beyond the point of return and some need so much care, then only loving family can provide. Externally, you can't do much.

Other countries have both better mental care provided from the state, and especially a social net. Usually family will take care of their ill.

Be happy with what you got, do a good job, and make sure to be close to your family and have close friends. You will realize that is part of life, and once and a while you will have a need for support from closed ones, but as long as you an handle yourself well most of the time and try to live a good life you wont have to worry.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#133

Post by dclowd9901 »

I've tried to figure out a way to say what you've said in this post since I've gotten here, and every time, it's sounded like an indictment on the poor.

Brilliant post, and it's criminal that an area so full of brilliant people can be so detached from the most actual problems facing the world, when they're right on the proverbial doorstep.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#134

Post by TallGuyShort »

run4yourlives wrote: post #95
VMG wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is simple. You simply give every adult citizen enough money every year to insure that they can afford food, shelter, and other basic needs. Give it to everyone, rich or poor, same amount. BAM! You left out the part where the money comes from. Your idea is fine and dandy, but I doubt you are currently implementing it yourself by spending your own money. The idea depends on everybody being forced to pay.…

>Distributing money indiscriminately devalues work and effort. This is a poor understanding of the concept. The idea behind a Basic Income Guarantee is that it is received equally by every citizen in the country. It's an idea linked to Negative Income Tax and other like proposals, and shares support of many with a more libertarian/economically conservative bent. In most areas of North America where Basic Income exper…

I apologise if a simple search should find this and I just such at searching, but I'm intrigued after your comment. There seems to be little information about the Manitoba experiment and what Alaska calls "Basic Income" doesn't seem consistent with what is being discussed. Where else in North America have people experimented with this?

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#135

Post by downandout »

josefresco wrote: post #119
downandout wrote: post #19

This speaks to a larger problem: The world simply doesn't need many of the people born into it. Parents in the US have children for recreational purposes - child birth rates do not fluctuate with the demand for labor. These kids grow up, and many of them wind up sleeping on the streets of their chosen city or more commonly just barely living paycheck-to-paycheck, because there is no societal need for them. This bears…

"Parents in the US have children for recreational purposes" Really?!? I don't know a single parent who would list or even hint that they needed "recreation" when deciding to have a child. Let's assume you were half-joking, I still don't see having kids as something anyone takes lightly no matter what country you are born in. "child birth rates do not fluctuate with the demand for labor" Another horrible reason to hav…

When I say "recreational" I mean that there is no need for parents to have children, other than the fact that they are biologically motivated to. We have more people than resources in this world. That is a problem, and the only way to fix it is to encourage people to be realistic about the potential for their children to have happy, productive lives in a society that almost certainly has no use for them.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#136

Post by dragonwriter »

adammil wrote: post #109
jarjoura wrote: post #32

There is a disparity between rich and poor in this country, sure, but come on. Most of the homeless in SF actually want to be on the streets. So many of them are young and it used to make me sad but I have just learned to accept it. I always make a point to package up leftovers and hand them out. I'll even reach into my wallet and hand out a few dollars too. If there were more I could do though, I would be more than…

They don't choose to be on the streets, specifically. Instead, they make terrible choices that lead to being on the streets due to things like addiction and mental illness.

> They don't choose to be on the streets, specifically. Instead, they make terrible choices that lead to being on the streets due to things like addiction and mental illness.

Except perhaps in the case of trauma-induced mental illness resulting from a trauma that is a forseeable consequence of a choice made prior to the existence of the illness (and even in that case it may be a problematic position), I am having trouble seeing even a remote argument that "being on the streets due to [...] mental illness" as the result of "terrible choices".

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#137

Post by run4yourlives »

aidenn0 wrote: post #127
run4yourlives wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I like the idea of a Basic Income, and have actually come to support it heartily, (if you don't, take a look at some of the economists who have, and why they do) you are being naive to think that "self-inflicted cases" are somehow anything other than a vast majority. Almost all homeless have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues. That's why they are unable to act on one of the endless options that exist…

correction: Nearly all chronic homeless have mental illness and/or substance abuse; the chronic homeless make up only about 1/8 of the homeless at any given time.

Unless you have a citation that says otherwise, anything I've seen seems to suggest that there is little difference in the high percentage of mentally ill/substance abusers between chronic/non-chronic homeless.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#138

Post by mseebach »

CodeMage wrote: post #36
glesica wrote: post #18

I think that when people say "hard problems" they mean "problems that almost certainly have solutions if you are willing to put in the effort". Poverty on the other hand is a much, much harder problem than that. In fact, no one quite knows how to solve it in a general way (there are things that seem to work in certain contexts but not in others, many special case half-solutions). And on top of that, there probably is…

Poverty on the other hand is a much, much harder problem than that. In fact, no one quite knows how to solve it in a general way (there are things that seem to work in certain contexts but not in others, many special case half-solutions). Everyone keeps saying that, as if there were only two alternatives: 1) completely fix poverty in a general way or 2) keep the status quo (and allow it to get worse). There has to be…

Homelessness isn't primarily (if at all) a (financial) poverty problem. Mental disorders and drug addiction are large factors, and neither are fixable with cash.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#139

Post by walshemj »

troebr wrote: post #53
jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

The guy's Scottish, he thinks it's about San Fran specifically, it's really about AMERICA. Maybe San Fran puts it even more in your face. But compared to most any other country even half as rich as America, the lack of social safety net in the U.S. is kind of shocking. People in Europe don't really realize the extent of it.

I'm French living in Jersey. I have been to San Francisco, even though it's blatant when you walk here, everywhere in the US I have that feeling that the poor are really forgotten. And they live in third-world country conditions. In France, the average rich is not as rich, and it's probably a lot harder to become successful and wealthy than here; but the poor are not left behind as much. It feels more like a society…

Well not sure a poor Algerian kid in the banlieues would totaly agree with you on that unfortunately or a Roma in eastern Europe for that matter.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#140

Post by [deleted] »

downandout wrote: post #19

This speaks to a larger problem: The world simply doesn't need many of the people born into it. Parents in the US have children for recreational purposes - child birth rates do not fluctuate with the demand for labor. These kids grow up, and many of them wind up sleeping on the streets of their chosen city or more commonly just barely living paycheck-to-paycheck, because there is no societal need for them. This bears…

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