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French President announces pro-business measures

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Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#131

Post by crusso »

wazoox wrote: post #72
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But the first million is not tax free neither. If over 1,000,000 is 75% then I'd assume that below 1,000,000 isn't much better. I'd assume if I sell for 2,000,000 the total tax will be at least 50%. How is this fair?

It's fair because you're driving on roads, bring your children to school, may need to go to hospital at times, and profit from a judicial system able to enforce law and your company's contracts, among other things. If you want to live in a country without taxes, try Somalia, or Congo.

Everyone drives on roads, takes their kids to school, and may need to go to the hospital at times. Some of us pay extra for private roads to be built and for private schools for our children to attend because the government equivalents are crap.

As the poster mentioned, if you are an entrepreneur, normally you forgo a steady salary and corporate benefits in order for a big payout later. When the government is going to take a huge chunk out of that payout when you've already been sacrificing hard just to get there - it begins to look less and less worth it.

I've spent my adult career going from startup to startup. Looking at the current regulatory and confiscatory tax environment, I don't know if I'd do the same starting over.

If I could go back 20 years, I'd probably just go work for a big company like IBM or UPS and stay there. If I'm noticing that pressure against entrepreneurs then others are noticing it too. The government is slowly but surely killing off drivers that increase risk taking.

That's a bad thing.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#132

Post by claudius »

josephlord wrote: post #98
vacri wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is a big company? Bigger than Virgin? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. I'm not saying incorporation is not stupidly expensive in Europe, but lets keep it balanced.

And in the software field a little company called SAP AG and elsewhere in the technology field a little phone company called Vodafone.

Not to mention the giants coming from privatisation of previous publicly owned industries – e.g. Deutsche Post, Deutsche Telekom and Deutsche Bahn.

The difference to the US seems to be that many businesses that grew after WW2 already existed beforehand (e.g. Aldi) and/or didn’t really grow, but still outcompete everybody else in their respective fields (SME aka German Mittelstand).

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#133

Post by eli_gottlieb »

rfrey wrote: post #95
wazoox wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fair because you're driving on roads, bring your children to school, may need to go to hospital at times, and profit from a judicial system able to enforce law and your company's contracts, among other things. If you want to live in a country without taxes, try Somalia, or Congo.

The debate is not between "taxes" and "no taxes." We're all clever enough to understand shades of gray.

No, in my experience there are no shades of gray. It's just "taxation is theft". There is no level of taxes, no matter how low in real terms, where people actually stop complaining.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#134

Post by ferrantim »

bradfordarner wrote: post #128

This is phenomenal news for France! After having married a French woman, lived in France and subsequently we moved back to the U.S., I realized how far behind France was in the entrepreneurial game when compared to the States. Yet, there are really brilliant people in France! These measures are definitely a step forward. I will be interested to see if they speak about it on Le Grand Journal this evening. Once we have…

+1 my wife is French too and we are also contemplating moving back when our kids are school age. The big risk is the business climate but more and more I'm feeling excited about going to France and helping change the culture in small ways. Just like the French chefs who came to the US and turned our culinary world upside down, us based tech entrepreneurs can introduce some of what made the valley so successful. France is such an amazing culture. Glad to see that Hollande is taking steps to make it easy to fail and succeed.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#135

Post by byroot »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #10

75% tax rate. He is a sociallist big time. He hates free market economy. Now confronting public outrage he puts some lipstick on a pig and it still doesn't look good as he doesn't get the markets. 75% tax rate, who is he kidding? Who wants to work for free for years on their startup and sacrifice their savings, their social life, sometimes their family, just to be hit by 75% tax at the end of the journey? No thank yo…

If a 75% tax rate is being socialist big time, were the US communist back in the 50' ? Because they had tax rates up to 91% at the time. It's under 50% only since Reagan.

One source among others: http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2011/09/america-prospere...

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#136

Post by bradfordarner »

ferrantim wrote: post #134
bradfordarner wrote: post #128

This is phenomenal news for France! After having married a French woman, lived in France and subsequently we moved back to the U.S., I realized how far behind France was in the entrepreneurial game when compared to the States. Yet, there are really brilliant people in France! These measures are definitely a step forward. I will be interested to see if they speak about it on Le Grand Journal this evening. Once we have…

+1 my wife is French too and we are also contemplating moving back when our kids are school age. The big risk is the business climate but more and more I'm feeling excited about going to France and helping change the culture in small ways. Just like the French chefs who came to the US and turned our culinary world upside down, us based tech entrepreneurs can introduce some of what made the valley so successful. Franc…

Agreed. That is the frustrating part. The education system is so great and their health system is incredible. I really liked living in Paris. It is without a doubt the most beautiful city that I have ever lived in. Plus, I absolutely love the French language.

We are sort of in the same position. We would like to head out to Silicon Valley get some experience there and then move back to France and become involved in entrepreneurship in Paris while our children would finish high school and go to university.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#137

Post by Silhouette »

watsonc73 wrote: post #59
MetaCosm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US -- we look at some of our most successful businesses and a ton of them had bankrupt companies in their past... Ford (cars), Disney (media), Lincoln (president), Heinz (condiments), Hershey (candy), Twain (author), Fox (media) -- tons of others...

Great point - Unfortunately, it's endemic in European society that bankruptcy should be labelled as a permanent branding of failure for an entrepreneur. Until this year in Ireland, an adjudicated bankrupt could not apply for €630 credit without disclosing his status as a bankrupt (which could last for up to 12 years!) I'd bet that the countries with the lowest barriers to exiting bankruptcy (eg 6 months in the US) al…

I'd bet that the countries with the lowest barriers to exiting bankruptcy (eg 6 months in the US) also have the highest start-up success rates.

Perhaps, but someone is still footing the bill for those failures that were able to write off debts they couldn't afford, so I wouldn't be too quick to assume a very liberal culture with regard to bankruptcy is always better.

Remember, bankruptcy doesn't just mean a company failed to make money, it implies that the company ran out of money without even paying its debts. In this context, that usually means taking on a bigger loan than it could afford to repay.

If banks are going to lend more money to businesses run by people who make that mistake, they're probably going to be putting up interest rates on loans across the board to pay for it. That's going to hit other businesses that are borderline successful in their early days instead, possibly even killing them off before they become established and sustainable.

I know it's popular around places like SV and around HN to talk up failure like it's a badge of honour and guarantees you'll have valuable experience to learn from for next time, but a failure is still a failure. Even if most one-time failures shouldn't merit the end of someone's entrepreneurial career, banks should lend responsibly and be hesitant about lending to someone with track record of not repaying their debts.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#138

Post by guylhem »

rikacomet wrote: post #81
Mikushi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is not sprinting. No amount of measures will change the main issue we have in France : the people. I am French myself, moved to Canada 6years ago, then moved to London a year and half ago. I have kept a very close eye on France, I tried to find jobs there, interesting jobs, but it is just not happening, there are so many hurdles it's not even funny, just to list a few : salaries are way off compared to places…

If you read it right, I'm going there for studies, not job. France, is working hard on its higher studies, if any government is serious, I as a investor, would leverage on that.

The studies really are top notch, at very competitive prices. There are hidden gems around, like Toulouse School of Economics.

Generally, in every french university, you can really learn stuff, have a good core curriculum - and even do that at a discount price if you shop around or know how to play the game.

Your decision to study in France is wise. Make the most of it. I just recommend you reevaluate where to start your business when the times come, because of the opportunity costs.

I'm french, and if things had been different (or in the future) I'd consider starting my business in India :-)

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#139

Post by guylhem »

rikacomet wrote: post #77
kamaal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about France, but your claim about China and India being exhausted is laughable to say at the least. India is 'The' place to be in this century. With a relatively young free market economy, and a negligible competition space in the start up market. You can practically do anything you want and achieve in India currently. Don't simply blindly believe the place you want to go to is the best, rather research pro…

Yes, India is place to be, in longer run, thats why I'm planning to stay here. But France is a short term opportunity, as long as this government is taking stuff seriously. As a student entrepreneur, I find India a lot harder than France.

That's a view I totally share - except for the government being serious. I have my thing with Hollande. It's the first good thing I've heard him say.

But certainly, if you can grab an opportunity, run with it.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#140

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

jgrahamc wrote: post #108
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #84

There is a reason for which there have been no big French or European company founded after WW2 (1945). The reason is called socialism. Think about it. BMW, Mercedes, Siemens, Loreal, Peugot, you name it! No Google from Europe, no Microsoft, no Oracle, or Tesla, or whatever. Not a single big company from the EU after 1945. Especially overregulated places like France. I met a French clothes designer in New York recent…

There is a reason for which there have been no big French or European company founded after WW2 (1945). So, the following don't count? Bouygues ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouygues ) founded in 1952. Large conglomerate with 130,000 employees world wide. Capgemini ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgemini ) founded in 1967. One of the largest IT consulting firms in the world. Carrefour ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

I'm sorry, never heard of most of them. And still as socialism progressed less and less were able to grow really big as your own timeline indicates.

The companies from your list are not innovative enough too. They are not like Benz that was first cars manufacturer in the world. Or Microsoft that was the first software company in the world.

Yeah, they opened a few stores more than others, or are one of a bazillion successful IT consultancies.

That's not innovation. And innovation is this what requires friendly tax regimes and little to no regulation. That's why it's not happening in the EU.

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