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JQuery 2.0 Released

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Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#131

Post by eurleif »

nbouscal wrote: post #94
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it took a LONG time - IEs 6 and 7 were released in 2001 and 2006 respectively, so assuming your '4 years ago' stat is correct, that's still 3 years of waiting for a sweet spot of upgrades, by which time IE6 was 8 YEARS old. IE7 still gives me enough traffic (~5%) to require support, so that's a total of 4 active versions I need to cater for. I really hope adoption of latest IE speeds up, but I've been hopin…

I still can't wrap my head around this concept that 5% requires support. Tim Ferriss isn't right about everything, but his bit about firing your worst customers is dead on. The Pareto principle suggests that 20% of your customers cause 80% of your workload, and the sensible thing to do is drop those customers. If it's only 5% instead of 20%, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

It really depends what kind of business you're building. If you rely on the network effect, for example, 5% of your user base helps to lock in the rest of your users, and so losing it may have a greater overall impact than just 5%.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#132

Post by Dave9k »

crazygringo wrote: post #127
darkandbrooding wrote: post #121

I've read through the 100+ comments that preceded me, and I must be missing something stupidly obvious. Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me. Can't you just host your own copy of JQuery? If your web app needs version x.y.whatever, is there some reason why you can't just host your own copy of the library on the same servers the provide the rest of your web content? I understand the convenience of using som…

There is zero problem with hosting your own copy. Lots of people do. The main advantage to using a CDN is that a single copy can be cached across multiple websites, meaning that the first time someone visits your site, there's a good chance your version of jQuery already sits on their computer. Plus, the Google CDN will often serve content faster than your own site. And, since jQuery is now so "integral" to websites,…

You can use a CDN and fallback to local if it goes down.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5257923/how-to-load-local...

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#133

Post by angersock »

silverbax88 wrote: post #123
angersock wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which companies? Give us some names--that's why I'm proposing this list. We always, always hear the same threadbare stories about mythical magical enterprise customers that can't/won't upgrade, and the little tail wags the dog, and the life for the rest of us is made harder. All this for a use case which is basically hearsay and rumors. As for inexperienced developers--I'll go and say that the experience I've had of…

No one working at that level is going to disclose their customers and the technology agreements they have. That would be business suicide (and would ruin lives). Again, this isn't mom and pop shop level stuff. But I will give you a clue. Go find a list of the top 10 biggest banks in the United States. It's almost all of them. Then go find the biggest credit card companies. It's most of them.

Sounds like a plan--didn't mean to come off as a jerk; you probably grok what I'm getting at. Thanks!

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#134

Post by skue »

epmatsw wrote: post #130
angersock wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any list of companies that currently require old versions of IE? I know a lot of hospitals do, and people handwave banks and whatnot. If there was a big list of "These people still use old versions of IE", then we could: A. Properly shame/advertise for attack/avoid getting work from these people. B. Expose a dedicated market audience for compatibility-minded dev shops Either of these would seem to be a Good…

You'd be surprised about hospitals. At a hospital with modern software, a lot of the browser based stuff they use actually runs through Citrix or something similar, so they're using IE9/10 or Chrome for the most part.

> At a hospital with modern software...

That's one helluva qualifier when talking about hospitals. Our company creates web-based software for hospitals, and we have yet to talk to a customer who doesn't need IE7 support. (We draw the line at IE6.)

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#135

Post by yuhong »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #95
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider an alternative to major version bumping, e.g. a slightly different name for this fork, such as jQuery-slim ... or a much better name? :-) I think the problem is that 2.0 just implies 'better' to such an extent that a lot of people will be concerned about 1.9's imminent sunsetting.

If you think about it it's like how Microsoft have handled MSIE. They've dropped support for older OS, ie XP and earlier, in IE9 but are still offering support/patches for IE8.

In fact, they actually support all the versions of IE supported on a given Windows version using the lifecycle of that Windows version. I personally have a MSRC case pending against IE7 on XP.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#136

Post by crdoconnor »

DigitalSea wrote: post #106
hobbes78 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 31.37% pretty minuscule? I don't think so... Source: http://www.netmarketshare.com/

You combined all aforementioned versions of IE together to yield that result: http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpri... — even combined the market share is still in my opinion minuscule. The only browser with a substantial market share is IE 8 which according to the site has a market share of 23%, it's not even worth adding in those other percentages on-top to try and make it seem as though a lo…

>Edit: Why all of the down-votes, is my response offensive?

Because you described "1/3 of the internet" as "a miniscule proportion of ones' users", probably.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#137

Post by lessnonymous »

darkandbrooding wrote: post #121

I've read through the 100+ comments that preceded me, and I must be missing something stupidly obvious. Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me. Can't you just host your own copy of JQuery? If your web app needs version x.y.whatever, is there some reason why you can't just host your own copy of the library on the same servers the provide the rest of your web content? I understand the convenience of using som…

It's not about being able to access 1.x in the long term from a CDN. The problem is whether it will still be supported. If there are bugs in 1.x, will they be fixed? Will 1.x support Chrome v40 and IE 15?

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#138

Post by DigitalSea »

crdoconnor wrote: post #136
DigitalSea wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You combined all aforementioned versions of IE together to yield that result: http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpri... — even combined the market share is still in my opinion minuscule. The only browser with a substantial market share is IE 8 which according to the site has a market share of 23%, it's not even worth adding in those other percentages on-top to try and make it seem as though a lo…

>Edit: Why all of the down-votes, is my response offensive? Because you described "1/3 of the internet" as "a miniscule proportion of ones' users", probably.

Then shouldn't my original comment be the one that gets down-voted which is where I originally said IE's market share is minuscule, not my response to someone else's comment? I standby what I said. Considering Google does not support versions of IE below 9, Google too deems 1/3 of the Internet to be a minuscule proportion of users if they're fine dropping support.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#139

Post by _sh »

lessnonymous wrote: post #137
darkandbrooding wrote: post #121

I've read through the 100+ comments that preceded me, and I must be missing something stupidly obvious. Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me. Can't you just host your own copy of JQuery? If your web app needs version x.y.whatever, is there some reason why you can't just host your own copy of the library on the same servers the provide the rest of your web content? I understand the convenience of using som…

It's not about being able to access 1.x in the long term from a CDN. The problem is whether it will still be supported. If there are bugs in 1.x, will they be fixed? Will 1.x support Chrome v40 and IE 15?

Backporting bugfixes has a cost. Requiring 1.x to support IE15 pushes that cost onto the jQuery developers instead of where it rightfully belongs: migrating your app to a recent version.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#140

Post by reeses »

yuhong wrote: post #113
reeses wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go into a local small business with about [$|€|£]2-5m in turnover per year. A moderately successful veterinary practice comes to mind. They have applications that need to be managed by what is undoubtedly an outsourced IT service, very likely related to some other system (practice management, diagnostic hardware, goofy industry-specific file formats, accounting, back-office, etc.). They will stay on XP for ages becau…

>They will stay on XP for ages because it works with everything they bought when they last "modernized" their practice ten years ago. AFAIK the only reason XP was supported for more than that was the Longhorn delays.

Many of these people don't care about "support" from Microsoft. They care about compatibility with some piece of mission critical software, whether it's a DOS-based app, an old FoxPro database that won't run on a newer release (compatibility mode what?), or an ancient version of Peachtree that can't be upgraded without going through ten intermediate versions.

Whether it's XP, 98, 95, NT, OS9, SCO, OS/360, etc. isn't really the issue. It's that customers need a reason to upgrade, and making life easier for a web developer is usually not that reason.

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