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Web Development: A Crazy World

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Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#131

Post by lelandbatey »

31reasons wrote: post #120
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am amazed a rant can go English -> Mandarin -> English via half the world's tech forums, and still be recognised by its original author. But what really blows my socks off is how a tech forum in Beijing follows rants from Slovenian blog to a Californian forum and back again. And it actually matters to the Chinese because they liked it as much as we did. Welcome to the new global culture, sharing the same memepool.

This is scary, we are loosing diversity at an incredible rate.

Of all the conclusions to be drawn from this observation, I believe yours is the most pessimistic.

I'm much more excited by the fact that information was able to quickly traverse national and language barriers, making it's way all around the globe to catch up with where it began in such a short time. That's pretty amazing if you ask me!

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#132

Post by tosh »

I like many of the state of the art frameworks, especially backbone.js and I'm really thankful for how much impact they had on making complexity in web apps manageable. That said I absolutely agree with you regarding the fragmentation problem which seems more like a stack problem to me.

For me personally it looks like what the web desperately needs is a common ground for how widgets work and behave. Web Components look like what we will get and I really can't wait to see that happen: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/...

Here are some examples from Dart Web UI (web component polyfills for Dart) http://www.dartlang.org/articles/dart-web-components/

Also here is a great article about the web stack fragmentation that you might be interested in: http://zef.me/4835/dart-web-fragmentation-vs-web-development...

Exciting times, Thomas

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#133

Post by purplelobster »

timonv wrote: post #60

Web Development is fine, it's the Javascript, and especially the frontend world that's the problem. Why do we bother with a language that's inconcise, lacks so many common, useful functions (enumerals, strings, etc), and general doesn't do what we want it to do? In spite of fundamental problems, people try to address them with custom solutions. Those are inherently very PERSONAL solutions - because everyone wants to…

Day to day I work in C++. I've also used many much more elegant languages, Python, Haskell, etc. Right now I'm doing web development in my spare time, and I don't see where this hate for JavaScript is coming from. Sure, it might not be the prettiest language in the world, but who cares? It's what's available to us, and I'm actually quite satisfied it's JavaScript and not something worse. I don't seem to care half as much about languages as the average hacker news reader, I'm not sure why. I care about what I'm trying to create.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#134

Post by eranation »

Swizec wrote: post #81
eranation wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the original rant here, funny it became viral and translated to Chinese (and back to English) :) The rant was made as a comment here: http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s... Picked up by a Tilo Mitra: http://tilomitra.com/the-crazy-world-of-code/ And as discussed here in HN before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4226990 The point of it was actually: it's impossible to always kee…

Author of original post here ... ... this is a crazy trip for a comment to make! And I still think most people over-engineer and over-think their startup tech. Customers don't care what you use, as long as it solves their problem. The rest just helps with recruiting I guess.

To those who are confused due to the myriad of OPs here, Swizec is the author of the excellent blog post that is the beginning of this interesting global thread.

(I bet you over engineered your startup, posted on July 2012 at http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s...)

If you haven't read it yet, highly recommended, much better than my rant.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#135

Post by jccodez »

To quote Jamie Zawinski: "At the end of the day, ship the fucking thing! It’s great to rewrite your code and make it cleaner and by the third time it’ll actually be pretty. But that’s not the point—you’re not here to write code; you’re here to ship products."

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#136

Post by api »

rpeden wrote: post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

Absolutely. A truly cool app written in VB.NET is more interesting than FizzBuzz in Haskell.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#138

Post by api »

eranation wrote: post #39
rpeden wrote: post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

Author of the original rant here, funny it became viral and translated to Chinese (and back to English) :) The rant was made as a comment here: http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s... Picked up by a Tilo Mitra: http://tilomitra.com/the-crazy-world-of-code/ And as discussed here in HN before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4226990 The point of it was actually: it's impossible to always kee…

The absolute worst is SOA (the "enterprisey" buzzword for lots of small services) architectures in which every service is written in a different language!

"Oh, our payment processor is in Node, but our site's in Ruby. Our file caching layer is in Python with bits of C for high performance and our crypto stuff is in C++ with Boost and libcryptopp but it talks to a Java app that uses Cassandra..."

(Runs outside, sets self on fire, shoots self in head...)

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#139

Post by metaphorm »

jh3 wrote: post #137
metaphorm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only for PHP developers

Did you make this account to talk about how you think Django is awesome?

its a new account. today there was a discussion about django, and i like django. surely i'll discuss other things on other days. why do you care anyway?

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#140

Post by camus »

purplelobster wrote: post #133
timonv wrote: post #60

Web Development is fine, it's the Javascript, and especially the frontend world that's the problem. Why do we bother with a language that's inconcise, lacks so many common, useful functions (enumerals, strings, etc), and general doesn't do what we want it to do? In spite of fundamental problems, people try to address them with custom solutions. Those are inherently very PERSONAL solutions - because everyone wants to…

Day to day I work in C++. I've also used many much more elegant languages, Python, Haskell, etc. Right now I'm doing web development in my spare time, and I don't see where this hate for JavaScript is coming from. Sure, it might not be the prettiest language in the world, but who cares? It's what's available to us, and I'm actually quite satisfied it's JavaScript and not something worse. I don't seem to care half as…

i guess you never had to build large applications with javascript. Imagine you need to write a js app by the size of your C++ programs ? that's what webdev are asked to do today, but without a built-in module system , without strict typing , without built-in class system ( you need to roll your own , which may not be compatible with the one used in the library you might use ) , without the insurance that the API you use works across all browsers , ... JS doesnt help you to build applications it comes with no battery included.
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