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IRC is dead, long live IRC

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Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#131
This story reminds me of a funny story of how I came to learn Unix and found my future career.

In Fall 1993, I was a freshman at Vanderbilt and I was sitting in a computer lab, working on a CS assignment. There was an upperclassman guy sitting next to me, chatting on IRC. I'd never seen this before but I was intrigued. I was an avid BBSer and FidoNET sysop (LOL) and the idea of pan-Internet chat was fascinating. I asked him how I could use this program and he showed me how to launch the client on our school's VAX system. I was hooked and began to spend my weekday nights at the lab, chatting on IRC.

A month or so later, I got a call from my father and he was pissed. He had gotten a bill from the school for $800 of "computer time". As it turns out, the school gave every student a small amount of CPU time on the CTRVAX system to register for classes and send e-mail. I was a VMS rookie and I wasn't aware that I had to exit the IRC program when I was finished. I'd just been closing the telnet session and that left IRC running, eating up CPU time. It was like a cell phone data plan: you had your quota and everything over that was very expensive. After I got the call from my dad, I went to the people who ran the VAX and begged them for mercy on this bill. They were merciful but suggested that I find another system to IRC from. They suggested the Sun Microsystems desktops in the CS lab. The Suns were great because there was always a wait to get an open PC in this busy lab but the Suns were unpopular and always available. I'd never used SunOS before but some guy in the lab helped me get started with it.

These SPARCstations were very bare-bones. They had the Sun C compiler and of course OpenView but that's about it. I didn't know anything about compiling OSS back in 93 so I used a popular method to get a client installed. There was a server, sci.dixie.edu, that you would telnet to:

% telnet sci.dixie.edu 1 | sh

Yeah, I actually piped the output of a telnet session to sh(1). Unthinkable nowadays but this is how most of us got started. A few minutes of compiling later, I was up and running with a SunOS IRC client. Over time, I learned more about the Sun workstations and eventually because a Sun sysadmin.

I was a steady IRCer (terrapen on EFnet) until around 2003 or so, when the juvenile politics and fighting got to be too much.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your addendum, I too have joined a channel to find everyone idling. Turns out, they get an alert when someone writes something, and all you have to do is ask your question. Almost invariably someone will pipe up. Think of them as being "on call."

That's exactly what I did (I was aware enough of IRC ettiquite that people idle in the rooms but may come back sometime later & answer): ask a question and usually answer my own question and quit without a response some 4 hours later.

Keep in mind that those people may have been in a different timezone and simply were sleeping.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#133
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try getting them onboard with www.hipchat.com. Even tho I still use IRC at home we use hipchat at work, and it works pretty well. The ability to easily send screengrabs and similar stuff to other users is pretty handy.

Is this supposed to be a joke? Why in all seven hells would you use a proprietary, hosted service which brings you zero advantages over a time-tested, open and simple network protocol which you can extremely easily host and extend yourself? I don't get you people. I really don't get you.

I mean, I can give you the reasons that I have a hipchat account which I use with my coworkers, even though a good 50% of us are also on IRC for other purposes.

1) It proved to be a pain supporting the non-techies using IRC

2) Nobody wanted to maintain the IRC server and set up logging. (And, if you add up the couple hours to do so and maintain it in a year, hipchat ends up being a good deal)

3) Some of our people use the SMS and xmpp integration, which makes it easily fit into their existing communications.

4) The API, web based search, gui admin, github integration, unfuddle integration, etc are already setup and/or written (an extension of #2)

5) Nice handling of large chunks of pasted text. (The web and desktop clients format them in fixed width properly and limit the size but provide and expand link.) This is more convenient than pasting a pastebin link, and works better than irc because of line breaks.

I mean, basic economics as well. If someone spends an hour a year maintaining the IRC server, helping non-tech people get onto IRC, etc, then paying for hipchat instead, for 4-8 people is well worth it each year.

(This is all after having used a channel on a public irc server, then someone set up IRC on a vps, then we used grove , and ended up on hipchat for the past year.)

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#134
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your addendum, I too have joined a channel to find everyone idling. Turns out, they get an alert when someone writes something, and all you have to do is ask your question. Almost invariably someone will pipe up. Think of them as being "on call."

They'll pipe up if the question is something like "What's the flag to make ls display in color?". IRCers are generally pretty quiet if you ask something actually technical or involving the code, or they'll just offer up a lot of speculation and irrelevant links. My theory is that the real project leaders and developers use mailing lists because they need to get work done, not watch IRC.

That depends a lot on the project. I've noticed significant difference in the attitude of several IRC communities.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#135
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I did (I was aware enough of IRC ettiquite that people idle in the rooms but may come back sometime later & answer): ask a question and usually answer my own question and quit without a response some 4 hours later.

Keep in mind that those people may have been in a different timezone and simply were sleeping.

Which is fine, but it doesn't make IRC any more effective than mailing lists for getting answers for open source projects.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#136

I have to go against the grain of my colleagues here. Our company uses IRC, and I hate it. Our small group, on the other hand, uses primairly Skype, and it works well for us. IRC fails for me for a few reasons. First, I have to set up a SSH tunnel to use it. It's inconvenient, doesn't always start & restart automatically, but it's required because we want our communications to be private, and we're a distributed comp…

I'm sorry to say this, but all issues you describe are instances of PEBKAC.

Can you suggest a client which:

1) handles ssh tunnels for me after being configured

2) Automatically handles notifications that I'm being talked to

3) Can retrieve chatlogs from when I'm offline

4) Handles afking automatically

5) Encrypts chats between people

for the mac? It would be really useful.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to say this, but all issues you describe are instances of PEBKAC.

Can you suggest a client which: 1) handles ssh tunnels for me after being configured 2) Automatically handles notifications that I'm being talked to 3) Can retrieve chatlogs from when I'm offline 4) Handles afking automatically 5) Encrypts chats between people for the mac? It would be really useful.

1-4) Long-running irssi in tmux. Throw a shellscript onto your desktop that pulls up a terminal with ssh, and runs tmux when you click it (should be just 1 line).

5) Use PGP/GPG and email if you don't trust your IRC server. If you do, just use SSL. Since this is presumably an internal server, why wouldn't you trust it? There are of course encryption plugins for all the major IRC clients, but if you think you need one you are almost certainly Doing It Wrong(tm).

I don't know any Mac specific clients, not sure why you would want one.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#138

I work at google campus in london, an office for startups. Many weeks ago, somebody suggested on our yammer (business social network) that we should set up an irc channel for the people who work here. The general response was along the lines of 'that still exists?', 'hey, I heard windows 3.0 is being released', etc. Shame, because I find irc to still be the best chat I've ever used. Their response was also weird, sin…

If you have IM clients with easy to use group chat features I think IRC might not be the best choice for professional use. Keeping it within the IM clients allows to have a single place to log discussions and you know everyone is using roughly the same features.

Actually making it an explicit task to invite the right people to discuss when you need a group chat can be a feature in itself.

Now I love IRC, but for private use only.

Re: IRC is dead, long live IRC

#140
post #69

I work at google campus in london, an office for startups. Many weeks ago, somebody suggested on our yammer (business social network) that we should set up an irc channel for the people who work here. The general response was along the lines of 'that still exists?', 'hey, I heard windows 3.0 is being released', etc. Shame, because I find irc to still be the best chat I've ever used. Their response was also weird, sin…

We ditched jabber for IRC at another company I previously worked at, and it became a staple for communication even though our entire office was only ~800 square feet.

Interesting. My company ditched IRC for Jabber. Why did you guys make the switch in that direction?
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