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PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

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Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#131

Post by Huarache1 »

Daishiman wrote: post #123
Huarache1 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Mental Health is genuinely a fleeting, seemingly slowly renewable resource brought down by either screens, stress, or something else. I believe that openly talking about it, while a great way to de-stigmatize it, may have inadvertently caused self-diagnoses and worsening symptoms to increase. There is also something else to be said about Mental Health, coming from one of the countries with the lowes…

> Peru probably isn't the best place to live, but the food, weather, people, and general culture which almost normalizes suffering in an almost Buddhist way (Sufre Peruano sufre! lit. Suffer Peruvian, Suffer!) might have something to do with a more robust mental health situation? Handling a mental health crisis or living through hardship in a stoic manner means nothing about your overall performance. People in the pa…

I think everything you said is true, although as an addendum I (anecdotally) often find that some poorer nations are often closer and tight knit, which does cause stigma, but also reduces loneliness and stress associated with some mental issues.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I remember reading about a son of a Japanese-Colombian couple that felt anxious and lonely in Japan, but much more fulfilled and happy in Colombia. He said something about the Chaos bringing life into him, which makes him less introspective, less pensive of the future, yet also more optimistic and welcomed. I feel something similar in the States compared to Peru.

I think it could be because wealthier nations are more socially atomized, and much later in their stages of "Industrialization related anomie", and thus dissolves the "Asabiyya" or social cohesion of that culture.

Or I could just be biased, but I do think social atomization is much greater in wealthier nations.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#132

Post by Huarache1 »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #130
Daishiman wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peru probably isn't the best place to live, but the food, weather, people, and general culture which almost normalizes suffering in an almost Buddhist way (Sufre Peruano sufre! lit. Suffer Peruvian, Suffer!) might have something to do with a more robust mental health situation? Handling a mental health crisis or living through hardship in a stoic manner means nothing about your overall performance. People in the pa…

I see it as the kid that falls and gets up because kids are made of rubber, but if the parents are watching and become alarmed, it gets scared, cries, gets cuddled, and adopts the pattern. Resiliency is not about being stoic and bottling emotions, it's about not framing small setbacks as tragedies. In these times, the parents might even be aware of the consequences of what they're doing, but can't give the impression…

That is a prevalent part of Peruvian culture, which is also collectivist due to Andean culture.

"Resiliencia" is pretty tied to accepting your faults as they are, saying "pucha que (Peruvian slur) ya fue pues". This is often followed up with something akin to "do you want to eat"?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#133

Post by JeremyNT »

somenameforme wrote: post #76

IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation. By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'. You'd expect this to manifest in reduced test scores and reduced quality of outcomes across a breadth of fields over time paired with the inverse happenin…

> Why this is, is an interesting question but it hits on too many taboo topics.

What are those "taboo topics?" Can you state this plainly rather than obliquely?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#134

Post by loloquwowndueo »

lordnacho wrote: post #65
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing - many times it’s not obvious. But go check that chunk of code that, sure, works, and you’ll find subtleties that just don’t look right. But hey - you do you if that’s the kind of quality you’re happy with.

And traditionally written code won't have those subtleties? Really?

Not unless it’s written by a total novice. But hey - as in my previous reply, if you’re happy with AI-written code and honestly can’t see the difference, that’s ok. Do whatever floats your boat.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#135

Post by amadeoeoeo »

gonzalohm wrote: post #87
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Spain kids don't take these tests seriously Is there evidence for this attitude not generalizing?

I don't have any other evidence, but if there are any Spaniards here I would like to hear what they think

Spaniard here. Yeah, not surprising — there’s a bit of a cultural fondness for sabotage, or at least for deliberately messing with things that are "official" but somehow unimportant.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#136

Post by delis-thumbs-7e »

somenameforme wrote: post #76

IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation. By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'. You'd expect this to manifest in reduced test scores and reduced quality of outcomes across a breadth of fields over time paired with the inverse happenin…

See how in your own link one of the authors says indeed how the decline in results is because we have gone too woke:

  Dworak, a research assistant professor at Northwestern University and one of the authors on the study, is very clear that these results don’t necessarily mean Americans are getting less intelligent. “It doesn’t mean their mental ability is lower or higher; it’s just a difference in scores that are favoring older or newer samples,” she said in a press release. “It could just be that they’re getting worse at taking tests or specifically worse at taking these kinds of tests.”
And, it should be said, there has long been debate over how accurately IQ tests are able to gauge overall intelligence and potential for success in society in the first place.

No wait, they say nothing of the kind. And it seems people are getting better at 3D-thinking and decline is not the same in every topic measured so…

Man, your referencecreally does not support the narrative to which you are trying to bend the reality.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#137

Post by fastforwardius »

Tade0 wrote: post #64
amadeoeoeo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see news and forums claiming the problem is screens/smartphones and social media. Given the big gap between the east and the west... does anybody know if these are somehow less used/abused in asian countries? Any other reason why this gap might happen? Thanks

Here's a data point that should help: Poland's math score dropped by just 5 points. As for other tests: Science: -4 Reading: -7. Much like with GDP per capita, my country is climbing the rankings, but only via walkover.

Do you know if traditional blackboards have still been used in 2025?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#138

Post by Daishiman »

Huarache1 wrote: post #131
Daishiman wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peru probably isn't the best place to live, but the food, weather, people, and general culture which almost normalizes suffering in an almost Buddhist way (Sufre Peruano sufre! lit. Suffer Peruvian, Suffer!) might have something to do with a more robust mental health situation? Handling a mental health crisis or living through hardship in a stoic manner means nothing about your overall performance. People in the pa…

I think everything you said is true, although as an addendum I (anecdotally) often find that some poorer nations are often closer and tight knit, which does cause stigma, but also reduces loneliness and stress associated with some mental issues. I can't speak for everyone here, but I remember reading about a son of a Japanese-Colombian couple that felt anxious and lonely in Japan, but much more fulfilled and happy in…

> I think everything you said is true, although as an addendum I (anecdotally) often find that some poorer nations are often closer and tight knit, which does cause stigma, but also reduces loneliness and stress associated with some mental issues.

I don't disagree as I am from Latam too and feel the same about socialization in first world countries, and social isolation is very likely a culprit of many of the modern world's ills. But let's not sugarcoat the fact that resiliency in Andean culture is a survival mechanism for the brutal working and living conditions that a lot of the population is exposed to, and that resiliency is just the visible, healthier coping mechanism but most of it is invisible and silent suffering too.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#139

Post by delis-thumbs-7e »

logifail wrote: post #72

"English pupils have pulled ahead of the rest of the UK in international reading, maths and science tests, new data suggests, with Scotland and Wales falling further behind." Appreciate this stuff gets political very quickly, but I'm curious what did England do that Scotland and Wales did not do (or vice versa)?

It seems to me, without digging further into the data, that England sucked, but Wales and Scotland (along with rest of the OEDC) sucked harder. Meaning, they fell in grades, but rose in the ranking, since the decline was less steep.

However, perhaps Gove’s reforms in placing emphasis on STEM-subjects and reading finally start to have an effect.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#140

Post by kenjackson »

adrianN wrote: post #124
tptacek wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what manner are you suggesting demography would be at issue here?

Intelligence is probably at least partially inheritable. If intelligent people have fewer children you expect intelligence to go down eventually.

Not that quickly though.
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