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Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

abc.net.au

131–140 of 282 posts

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#131

The funny thing is that with $40T of public dept US is basically taking money from other countries (in exchange for a pice of paper saying IOU) and then using that money to force these countries to do what’s in US best interests (real or perceived). And the bigger that pile of debt is the more every government is invested in us not going bankrupt, hence the leverage just gets stronger. US is basically a private equit…

What you point out here is a major weakness in the typical US citizen's understanding of where US wealth and power comes from.

The US prints two kinds of dollars, the regular kind, then the T-bills.

T-bills get exchanged like dollars, investors/governments buy them because they are thought to be as stable as dollars, but also bear a bit of yield. The US benefits by printing T-bills over dollars because merely by changing the current interest rate, they change the dollar supply. Increasing interest rates lower the value of T-bills, decreasing the supply of dollars (as Silicon Valkey Bank found out...). This allows the US currency to remain very stable.

Referring to the $40T of T-bills merely as "debt" is quite deceptive. It's the global currency. You need enough currency out there to represent the actual amount of wealth, otherwise the values of dollars increases, and deflation is the only thing worse than inflation.

The US' $2T budget deficit is basically the rest of the world paying the US for the privilege of using US currency. The US is printing money, and getting the benefits of spending, because the rest of the world needs dollars to transact. They send us goods, we send them printed dollars. And then we get a president who calls this situation bad, because he doesn't understand what a "trade deficit" is. Utter insanity to have such a position and then just throw it all away.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#132
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh I don’t think that’s a good guess. More likely is that there are just mechanical reasons to have moved some (they didn’t move all of it by the way) gold to London. Plus it’s not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Your implication here is something akin to the Netherlands thinks the US will invade Canada - remember the Dutch moved gold from there too, or that the US will decide to seize the Netherland’s…

> dramatic scenario wouldn’t result in the US compelling the UK to also seize those assets? The US can demand that we seize other people's gold, but if we acceded then it's game over for our financial industry - London is an important financial centre today but if it's actually just New York but on the far side of the Atlantic who cares? My guess is that the UK would say "No" and since that's presumably a demand from…

> Bombing a girl's school in Iran looks like a PR master stroke by comparison.

Iran killed more than 30,000 of its own people for peacefully protesting and continues to hang its own citizens to this day. They (along with Hamas, Hezbollah, and more) intentionally set up military assets next to civilian facilities because they know we don’t intentionally strike civilian facilities and they tell you that themselves. Iran intentionally attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure and provides military support to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. They should be attacked for providing support for Russia alone, let alone anything else they’ve been doing.

Anyway back on topic

> The US can demand that we seize other people's gold, but if we acceded then it's game over for our financial industry - London is an important financial centre today but if it's actually just New York but on the far side of the Atlantic who cares?

The kind of scenarios envisioned in which the US seizes gold from the Netherlands are so catastrophic and crazy that requiring the UK to also seize said gold would seem to be not that big of a deal.

You guys are driving yourself into psychosis about how the world works and creating nonsense scenarios like the US is somehow going to just seize a pathetic $80 billion in gold and completely ruin the credibility of its financial system when Europe won’t even seize Russian assets and it’s practically at war. This shows the kind of bar needed to seize sovereign wealth. And no, Trump can’t and isn’t dumb enough to start seizing assets of another country. If you think he can and he is, you’re wrong and it is further evidence that you’re just whipping yourself up into crazy land.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t that necessarily mean that if the US keeps making enemies of allies, then the premium required for these countries to give US money would be higher? Sure, I’ll lend you some, but I don’t trust you that much, you’ll have to pay me more.

Go further with your reasoning... Why would anyone lend the US more...

I am not defending the US government but the reason why you hold treasuries is because if you want to buy something in two years, or ten years, etc. there is a good chance you will want to buy something with dollars. Oil, soy beans, New York real estate..

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#134
post #98
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

England is definitely a European country. I'm tired of people constantly making this political abuse of language of conflating "the EU" with "Europe". (And yes, saying "America" for "US of A" annoys me too. First step towards losing an imperialist state of mind is letting people from Canada and Brazil be in America).

Most Americans refer to their country as 'the U.S.'. The people I most hear referring to it as 'America' are Brits.

Gulf of America, Lake America, ...

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#135
post #9

I am dutch and read the news this week but I found it weird that a part of it went to England. I was expecting a European country.

England is definitely a European country. I'm tired of people constantly making this political abuse of language of conflating "the EU" with "Europe". (And yes, saying "America" for "US of A" annoys me too. First step towards losing an imperialist state of mind is letting people from Canada and Brazil be in America).

> (And yes, saying "America" for "US of A" annoys me too. First step towards losing an imperialist state of mind is letting people from Canada and Brazil be in America).

Hmm, maybe I should be pro-imperialism. I’ll do that before calling a Brazilian, Canadian, or Mexican an American to satisfy the whims of the language police.

But if you want to go to uni and call Americans United Statesians and fight a made up culture war, you’re certainly free to do that (in America at least, wherever that is).

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#136

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49573455 Why are European countries moving their gold out of North America?

The Dutch transfer out of Canada is minimal and pretty much a token amount. Most gold has been transfered out of the USA. As for why, the American people elected Donald Trump for a second time and the recent trade wars have helped spread the notion that maybe the USA cannot be trusted by its supposed allies as much as it once could be.

It's a bizarre headline.

New York: 31.33% -> 18.52%

Ottawa: 19.72% -> 18.52%

My guess is the original title focused just on the U.S., but the editors didn't want to draw attention from the big cheeto, so the headline was changed and now it looks less like the U.S. is the primary target.

Honestly, if quick access to their holdings is a concern, I wouldn't hold it against the Dutch if they moved more gold out of Canada too. Unfortunately, you presently just don't know when a sovereign nation in the Americas might be embargoed by the U.S..

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#137
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, I deal with British tourists a lot and they always talk about "going to Europe" when they refer to their summer holiday in Benidorm.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, the locals refer to SF proper as “The City” (not “Frisco”.) So, they may live in Cupertino, Palo Alto, or Oakland, but when they say “we’re going to The City for a concert on Saturday!” we can hear them pronounce those capital letters as an unambiguous reference to the one, true City.

> In the San Francisco Bay Area, the locals refer to SF proper as “The City” (not “Frisco”.)

Eh, they also say “I’m going to SF”

But agreed definitely not “Frisco”

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#138
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans refer to their country as 'the U.S.'. The people I most hear referring to it as 'America' are Brits.

Gulf of America, Lake America, ...

What’s the problem? We took nationalist names (Mexico, Ontario) and used the hemisphere appropriate term. If anything we’re more culturally progressive for doing it.

See? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49575360

Were not Americans, we are United Statesians!

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#139

The funny thing is that with $40T of public dept US is basically taking money from other countries (in exchange for a pice of paper saying IOU) and then using that money to force these countries to do what’s in US best interests (real or perceived). And the bigger that pile of debt is the more every government is invested in us not going bankrupt, hence the leverage just gets stronger. US is basically a private equit…

What you point out here is a major weakness in the typical US citizen's understanding of where US wealth and power comes from. The US prints two kinds of dollars, the regular kind, then the T-bills. T-bills get exchanged like dollars, investors/governments buy them because they are thought to be as stable as dollars, but also bear a bit of yield. The US benefits by printing T-bills over dollars because merely by chan…

That said, it's not necessarily a great deal for the US middle class anymore, due to the Triffin Dilemma:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

This 2020 piece by Lyn Alden is a great explainer:

https://www.lynalden.com/fraying-petrodollar-system/

(Not that I think anything Trump has done has helped the situation even accidentally.)

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further with your reasoning... Why would anyone lend the US more...

I am not defending the US government but the reason why you hold treasuries is because if you want to buy something in two years, or ten years, etc. there is a good chance you will want to buy something with dollars. Oil, soy beans, New York real estate..

Until you can buy oil without dollars. This was an explicit agreement called the Petrodollar system, which was premised on the US navy securing international trade. If the US navy proves unable to do that (and exhausts its arms and demonstrates unpreparedness for future conflicts) then the whole premise falls apart.

You might also stop buying real estate if the government seems unstable and economy is poised to collapse. Good soybeans also depend on fuel prices and the continued flow of fertilizer...

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