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An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

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Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#131

Post by sgarland »

hamdingers wrote: post #15

For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers. My P2S is…

Oh shit, I didn’t realize that had been cracked. Nice, I’m gonna switch ASAP.

I bought a P2S, and then literally a few days later, the X2D came out. Thanks Microcenter, and your excellent customer service and return policy. The X2D is everything the P2S is, but with another nozzle.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#133

Post by sgarland »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #129
ChuckMcM wrote: post #6

I think the Bambu case is a good one to litigate the AGPL but perhaps should start in the Court of International Trade. That court has the power to block imports as part of a TRO which would shut down a lot of their revenue from the US at least. Doing something similar in Europe would also help apply pressure. Takes lawyers and money though, of which there is certainly not enough of the latter. Not to be too glib her…

The article mentions reverse engineering the code. But is there anything to stop reverse engineering the physical printer itself, improving on it by 10mm build volume in each direction, and releasing that? It won't be a copy of the Bambu printer AND it can run the same software, truly freely.

There’s no need to reverse engineer it, just build a Voron 2.4.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#134

Post by [deleted] »

herbst wrote: post #41

I never used Windows, I never used Apple, I never used Adobe, I made my life harder than I needed to for my ideals... Now I am old and have enough hobbies and want things that just work. Got an iPad, and honestly most apps actually suck and cost monthly subscriptions plus app price, got a windows PC for music and it's horrible and full of ads. But these 3d printers actually just work. From a customer standpoint I can…

[deleted]

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#135

Post by InTheArena »

hamdingers wrote: post #15

For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers. My P2S is…

This part gives me hope, but I have not been able to find the certificate:

Option B: cloud mode without Developer Mode

Starting with v2.0.0 the plugin can also drive a cloud-paired printer with verification left ON — no Developer Mode. This keeps the cloud features (cloud print dispatch, print history, MakerWorld) but is meant for advanced users, because it requires private slicer credentials that this project does not distribute.

Two things are needed:

1. Bambu's slicer credentials, which you provide yourself. Put slicer_cert.pem, slicer_key.pem and slicer_crl.pem in the plugin's config directory (or point at them with slicer_cert_pem / slicer_key_pem / slicer_crl_pem in obn.conf). The plugin uses the key to sign MQTT print commands and to install its app certificate on the printer. These are private credentials. This project does not ship them and gives no instructions on obtaining them — you have to find or extract them yourself, and you alone are responsible for ensuring your use complies with the applicable terms and law.

2. Two settings in obn.conf. Set block_cloud = 0 (the default 1 blocks cloud printing outright) and client_name = BambuStudio (the honest default client name is rejected by the cloud print API with HTTP 403).

With that in place you get signed MQTT commands, on-printer app-certificate install, cloud print dispatch, print history and MakerWorld — without touching Developer Mode.

What the default cloud_print = cloud_only actually uploads. Even in this mode the model itself normally stays on your network: for a print with a cloud record the plugin sends the .3mf straight to the printer over LAN FTPS, and only the record goes to Bambu — a project entry, a task entry (mode=lan_file) and a small config .3mf that print history uses for its thumbnails. That record is exactly what buys you the cloud extras: print history in Studio and Handy, and the ability to rate models on MakerWorld. The full model is uploaded to Bambu's servers only when Studio dispatches a pure cloud print (start_print), e.g. for a printer that is not reachable on your LAN.

You can limit even that: set cloud_print = try_lan_first or lan_only to print over the LAN without writing a cloud record at all, and cloud_hide_history = 1 to hide the cloud print history in Studio.

If you run neither Developer Mode nor valid credentials, the printer rejects every print / project_file command and shows on its screen:

MQTT Command verification failed err_code: 84033543

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#136

Post by qiqitori »

RobotToaster wrote: post #123
throwaway219450 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not worth engaging in the debate. People have complained that Prusa printers are expensive since forever, even when the MK3 was objectively superior to the alternative models. They would rather buy a $200 Ender and spend a lifetime tinkering with it.

Prusa have their own ongoing GPL violation https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Prusa_Research

I think it's a bit iffy to argue that the bootloader code is covered by the GPLv3. In programs for standard computers running a big OS, the distinction lies in whether you are linking a library into your program. If the GPL code isn't a library but an external program, it isn't linking, and OK by the GPL. Now on to the bootloader code: in order to flash your device you have to put everything into a single image file. I guess the claim is that this process constitutes linking. But I don't think that is how most people think. Some possible arguments:

When linking, symbols pointing to addresses are involved. The main program calls functions in the library, and you end up with a whole program. On the other hand, a bootloader just does its thing and then jumps to a fixed address in the main program. The main program doesn't call anything in the bootloader. (Note, the Linux kernel has a special clause that explicitly allows the userland to programmatically interface with the kernel.)

I realize this sort of depends on the microcontroller toolchain. I'm familiar with a few, but not much with STM32 stuff. If the toolchain is dumb and implements the bootloader in a way that resembles linking, i.e. making it possible to resolve all the symbols in the bootloader from the main program then it could very well make the bootloader subject to the GPL.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#137

Post by mc3301 »

herbst wrote: post #83
m4rtink wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any reason why you did not choose a PRusa 3D printer ? From my experience those work well, are mucxh more open & don't do any of the stupid shit Bambu is trying to pull off.

Replacing my old ender with something that actually works was a relatively spontaneous thing for me. And as it's purely a hobby I looked for something price sensible but with multicolor support that I don't have to thinker with anymore. Not sure if Bambu was already hated back then for stuff like this. At least not that much, it just wasn't super open sure. At this point I get a new printer for free every few months…

A new printer for free every few months because of their weird point system?

How does that work?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#138

Post by gerdesj »

bonoboTP wrote: post #73
ChuckMcM wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For background, I participated in a "small" action that Sun took against someone who was violating the Java license. The legal fees (in the late 90's) were 8.2 million dollars. $250K is nothing to sneeze at, its a solid 6 weeks of a single lawyer's time, maybe a couple of weeks for a small team. Against a company doing nearly a billion dollars a year in revenue[1] and owning 29% of the printer market? Add in a couple…

Lawyers earn 250k per 6 weeks? More than 2M per year?

Have a look at this: https://ukcalculator.com/barrister-fees-calculator.html

It is for the UK but no doubt m'learned friends in the US can command even higher fees.

Try grabbing a KC for five days, civil/commercial with all the trimmings. That will set you back £105,000.

Obviously the impoverished KC won't pocket all that lolly. There is VAT to pay and staff costs and stuff.

A KC is one of these: https://kcappointments.org/ for obvious reasons they used to known as QCs

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#139

Post by hamdingers »

InTheArena wrote: post #135
hamdingers wrote: post #15

For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers. My P2S is…

This part gives me hope, but I have not been able to find the certificate: Option B: cloud mode without Developer Mode Starting with v2.0.0 the plugin can also drive a cloud-paired printer with verification left ON — no Developer Mode. This keeps the cloud features (cloud print dispatch, print history, MakerWorld) but is meant for advanced users, because it requires private slicer credentials that this project does n…

I have never had any interest in using Bambu's cloud. It works in LAN mode with none of this rigamarole.

If you want to feed all your print activity to Bambu's servers anyway, why bother using an open source plugin in the first place?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#140

Post by dghlsakjg »

bonoboTP wrote: post #73
ChuckMcM wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For background, I participated in a "small" action that Sun took against someone who was violating the Java license. The legal fees (in the late 90's) were 8.2 million dollars. $250K is nothing to sneeze at, its a solid 6 weeks of a single lawyer's time, maybe a couple of weeks for a small team. Against a company doing nearly a billion dollars a year in revenue[1] and owning 29% of the printer market? Add in a couple…

Lawyers earn 250k per 6 weeks? More than 2M per year?

Lawyers fees for a case like that also include expenses, and this would be on the high side.

Court fees, fees for accessing case law, experts, paralegals, etc.

You pay the lawyer and a big portion of that goes towards his costs for additional labour and everything else. A lawyer grossing $2m/year isn't bringing home anything close to that.

That said $250k for a single lawyer for 6 weeks seems high.

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