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Instagram's official response

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Re: Instagram's official response

#131
post #122
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some language in the post I found interesting: > The language we proposed also raised question about whether your photos can be part of an advertisement. We do not have plans for anything like this and because of that we’re going to remove the language that raised the question. Note that he doesn't say "we won't use your photos as part of an advertisement", he merely says "the reason we're removing that language is b…

It's a science fiction idea I think, but something that would also fly, given their statements, would be to show photos of people who look like your friends (Facebook have the machine learning / pattern matching capability) in order to influence your decisions; someone who looks like a great crush you had, dining at a nearby restaurant, for example. This would neither necessarily fit into the classification of 'adver…

Hmm. Or worse.. http://www.thelocal.se/45142/20121218/#.UNBmPUKjC2w

Re: Instagram's official response

#133
post #74

There's something I can't quite put my finger on, that makes this response seem a bit forced and insincere. "Legal documents are easy to misinterpret. So I’d like to address specific concerns we’ve heard from everyone" My understanding is that legal documents are written precisely to be as hard to misinterpret as possible. They say exactly what they mean, and (subject to possible judicial interpretation) mean exactly…

> legal documents are written precisely to be as hard to misinterpret as possible legal documents reuse diction that has been ruled on and has court established precedent, which creates a bias towards diction which ended up in court in the first place. i read that in a HN comment somewhere, sorry, no citation.

That's a very interesting "survival of the most litigated" sort of evolution. I wonder how much of a given document is unnecessary evolutionary baggage copy & pasted because it's part of That Standard Clause. I'd love to read more if you happen to recall the comment/story

Re: Instagram's official response

#134
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a verbal offer with specific dollar amounts ($525 million, in fact), an offer specific enough that Instagram had to back out of it before it was signed. I'm not talking about filling out an SEC-mandated press release, I'm talking about a direct question from state lawyers about whether there were any offers from other companies besides Facebook, and Systrom lied and then tried to employ weasel words about "…

What the hell? Responding carefully and specifically to a lawyer's question is not suspicious, it's standard operating practice whenever lawyers are involved. Systrom has no obligation to spill the beans about anything that some guy on the Internet thinks might be called an offer, and courtrooms have rules against assigning malicious interpretations thereunto.

Nice thereunto.

Re: Instagram's official response

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your lawyer. A more likely explanation is that Legal didn't want to modify their very-expensively produced and widely-reviewed employment contract for some mere employee. And HR had you figured out as a troublemaker. :-)

You are probably correct. Although to my credit I made sure the language I offered had been previously litigated. One argument offered was that it was "too much trouble" to have a special employment agreement for me and a different one for everyone else. They really meant "too much more trouble" since there were at least 3 revisions of the agreement between the time I started and the time I left. Interesting to read…

A friend recently spoke to his lawyer about an employment agreement, and the advice he got (this is 3rd hand by now mind you) was basically "if the terms are otherwise favorable to you, don't worry about the parts that are clearly unenforceable".

Re: Instagram's official response

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also noticed that they stepped short of saying they wouldn't be taking a non-exclusive perpetual license for any use out of the ToS. What does "ownership" mean in that case? Only that you can negotiate other deals with third parties. It can mean that they cannot re-license your work, which is to say you wouldn't have to compete with them in terms of pricing to a third party but I don't know if that is what the ToS…

Licence is: "non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use" So I would say "sub-license" means "re-license". It would be very unfortunate to have to compete with Instagram on pricing for your own content to a third party. Or some company that buys Instagram/Facebook out. Just read this bit: "To be clear: it is not our intention to sell your photos. We are working o…

Well there you go, hopefully you won't have ad agencies coming to Instagram as a clearing house to license images in their ads.

Re: Instagram's official response

#137

I find this thread really fascinating. I have a hard time imagining a more better apology from Instagram. They accept responsibility, there isn't a trace of hostility towards any of the people who 'misinterpreted' their terms, they are upfront about needing to make money, and they communicate (or attempt to) that they were never in favor of any of those kind of downright villainous things it seemed like they were in…

It's not a great apology because it implies things were just unclear, and need to be clarified. And we were silly for being confusing by the tricky legal stuff.

For instance, they say "The language we proposed also raised question about whether your photos can be part of an advertisement." No, the language they proposed clearly said that was something they could do: "you agree that a business may pay us to display your photos in connection with paid content." (paraphrased) Or the bit about "you own your photos and that hasn't changed". True, but that's not what people were complaining about. They were complaining about how it says "you own your photos but you grant us the rights to do anything with them up to selling them." Instagram just saying "you own your photos" back is meaningless as a response and sounds like they think we are just stupid.

(My source for the original complaints: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/instagrams-terms-of...)

Re: Instagram's official response

#138
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they're not. This article from the Verge is weird. The important changes are in the copyright license. The instagram blog post is lying by omission. Look at the former section "Proprietary Rights in Content on Instagram" > Instagram does NOT claim ANY ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content"…

> No they're not. This article from the Verge is weird. The important changes are in the copyright license. A reply from the author of the article in the comments[0]: > You guys know that I used to be a copyright lawyer, right? This stuff is all boilerplate terms of service — every service from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, etc all have it. 0: http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3780158/instagrams-new-te...

Oh, an appeal to authority.

Re: Instagram's official response

#139
post #74

There's something I can't quite put my finger on, that makes this response seem a bit forced and insincere. "Legal documents are easy to misinterpret. So I’d like to address specific concerns we’ve heard from everyone" My understanding is that legal documents are written precisely to be as hard to misinterpret as possible. They say exactly what they mean, and (subject to possible judicial interpretation) mean exactly…

It's exactly how I read it too.

"Instead it was interpreted by many that we were going to sell your photos to others without any compensation. This is not true and it is our mistake that this language is confusing. To be clear: it is not our intention to sell your photos. [But these changes means we could if we wanted]"

"Ownership Rights: Instagram users own their content and Instagram does not claim any ownership rights over your photos. [Not that it matters]"

It's all misdirection.

Re: Instagram's official response

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also doesn't say he's going to stop beating his wife.

She hasn't said she doesn't consent or request it.

This is why I wish I had downvote privileges. This is a) off-topic, and b) extremely offensive. Please stop.
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