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Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

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Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#131

Post by layer8 »

znpy wrote: post #30
mutagen wrote: post #4

This thesis appears to be related or the underlying research: https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/51312 Indicates 2mg and 5mg were given along with the placebo. While these are common dosages available in the US, these are higher dosages than recommended by at least some sleep experts. The thesis doesn't seem to differentiate between the dosages when evaluating cognitive processes. Now I want to evaluate my sleep stack against…

Indeed the best melatonin supplement i took was a small spray bottle where each hit was 500mg

I hope you mean µg.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#132

Post by kylecazar »

DANmode wrote: post #7
mutagen wrote: post #4

This thesis appears to be related or the underlying research: https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/51312 Indicates 2mg and 5mg were given along with the placebo. While these are common dosages available in the US, these are higher dosages than recommended by at least some sleep experts. The thesis doesn't seem to differentiate between the dosages when evaluating cognitive processes. Now I want to evaluate my sleep stack against…

5 is almost universally too much. 4 is almost universally too much.. 3 is the most I’ve ever recommended. More than enough.

I take a 3mg every night, but I've read that independent labs have studied the common OTC brands and found wildly different Melatonin content than advertised.

So I really don't know how much I take.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#133

Post by mettamage »

mlrtime wrote: post #116
rusk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharma and Healthcare was the implication I believe. The US approach to these things has a bad reputation internationally though I am informed that it’s an amazing system if you’re rich.

Are you implying that everyone in the US is taking unknown quantities of OTC medications? Unless you have some data to backup this claim, it is tinfoil hat speaking.

US melatonin measured dosage can be 4x as much as what is reported [1, 2].

Have you never looked into stuff like this? It's all over social media and the claims are relatively easy to verify. I'm asking because I need to know if I'm in a bubble or not.

[1] Cohen PA, Avula B, Wang YH, Katragunta K, Khan I. Quantity of Melatonin and CBD in Melatonin Gummies Sold in the US. JAMA. 2023;329(16):1401–1402. doi:10.1001/jama.2023.2296

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10130950/

[2] Erland LAE, Saxena PK. Melatonin Natural Health Products and Supplements: Presence of Serotonin and Significant Variability of Melatonin Content. J Clin Sleep Med. 2017;13(2):275–281. doi:10.5664/jcsm.6462

https://link.springer.com/article/10.5664/jcsm.6462

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#134

Post by glenngillen »

Angostura wrote: post #125
HexPhantom wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd expect the standard OTC dose to be a sensible starting point, not potentially several times more than a younger person needs

If they are targeted at older patients, I'd expect them to be a sensible starting point for older patients

Last time I was in the US the lowest dose melatonin gummies I could find in a CVS were 1mg — kids gummies.

That's more than 3x the actual recommended dose for an average adult based on the research others have shared in this thread. So no, they're not starting from a sensible starting point.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#135

Post by taurusnoises »

Recently, I started taking a 3mg dose of melatonin for 1-3 days after flying to a timezone requiring a fair amount of effort to get a full night's sleep (3-6+ hours time difference), and find it helps to quickly get me on the new schedule. I maybe feel a little groggy, but nothing unsettling.

Note: I take a trip like this maybe once or twice a year (no more), and typically wake up with zero grogginess otherwise.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#136

Post by mettamage »

koliber wrote: post #123
mettamage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the Netherlands, to the Kruidvat (or Etos or something similar) and just buy a lifetime worth of supply of Melatonin. It's 0.1 mg. I'm Dutch and live here. But my wife is American. If I ever happen to live in the US (chances are there in my lifetime). I'm going to employ this strategy. I don't trust the US with this and the Netherlands has proven itself to me in this sense. There are probably many more European…

I feel that the 1mg pill bottle that I have already is my lifetime supply, given the rate at which I use it.

I've been supplementing for almost 2 years. It still works.

I unfortunately need a lifetime supply. I almost take it every day. So 0.3 mg * 300 days * 100 years = 9 grams of melatonin.

I don't expect to live 100 years but it's handy to have a bit of an oversupply.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#137

Post by Spooky23 »

mft_ wrote: post #111
rusk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharma and Healthcare was the implication I believe. The US approach to these things has a bad reputation internationally though I am informed that it’s an amazing system if you’re rich.

Let’s not conflate US pharma with their healthcare more generally. The US is dominant in pharmaceutical and biotech, and FDA is generally excellent as a regulator, despite (IMO) sometimes being too conservative and resistant to any ideas not gestated within the agency. There are weird quirks (like the wide and wacky dosages of melatonin available over the counter, in this example) but most countries have such quirks.

Irrelevant due to a scoping problem. If you’re peddling a dietary supplement there is virtually no regulation at all.

As long as you don’t say anything in the marketing material, you’re good.

The only science in supplements is the marketing.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#138

Post by _dark_matter_ »

mettamage wrote: post #129
budsniffer952 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So much for a good faith discussion here. I don't appreciate that you tell me to "get a grip". You're not steelmanning. Instead, your reaction comes off as a knee jerk reaction. There are enough communities where I have to come up with defenses to deal with that nonsense. Don't do it here please. US melatonin measured dosage can be 4x as much as what is reported [1, 2]. Also 0.3 mg is the recommended dose [4]. A lot…

(referring to melatonin) yeah this is valid. I used to take melatonin every night, found out about the problems with us supply, couldn't find anything nearing 1/2 mg, and gave up. I took kids gummies for a few weeks, but I still think they were 1mg.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#139

Post by bookofjoe »

budsniffer952 wrote: post #99
mutagen wrote: post #4

This thesis appears to be related or the underlying research: https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/51312 Indicates 2mg and 5mg were given along with the placebo. While these are common dosages available in the US, these are higher dosages than recommended by at least some sleep experts. The thesis doesn't seem to differentiate between the dosages when evaluating cognitive processes. Now I want to evaluate my sleep stack against…

I love that people have developed a "sleep stack" without ever even knowing if what they take is improving the effects of sleep.

"sleep stack" gets my vote for winner of the 2026 "How You Know You're On HN" award

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#140

Post by doctorwho42 »

olivermuty wrote: post #26
ttoinou wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldnt you be less efficient with less sleep ? For a startup you should improve sleep quality

Yes, but this is sadly a lesson most founders (especially american ones) need to self teach. I certainly did and struggle with both sleep and stress induced anxiety, 9 years after my founder burnout.

Well there are a lot of social pressures in the startup/tech world to be go-go-go. It's the pure form of grind culture, coming out of silicon valley over the last few decades.
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