We already have several plug-in batteries?
Simple search: https://www.ecohome.net/en/guides/4189/best-plug-and-play-ho...
Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
131–140 of 140 posts
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#132If one is not modifying the house wiring how does this prevent backflow into the grid? Does it shutdown completely on power loss from the mains?
The standard governing this is UL 1741 in the US or VDE-AR-N 4105 in the EU. both require certified inverters to detect grid loss and immediately cut off.
So these plug in batteries are only functioning as "time shift" of power usage, but not as a mechanism to go supply standby power to the house?
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#133There are several variations on this idea, and the web sites are confusing. First, there are ones that are just a big UPS. You plug them into the wall, and plug loads into them. They may try to level your power usage. No problem with that. Good for refrigerators. That seems to be what "Pila" is selling. This class of device seems to come with deceptive ads which do not show cords from loads plugged into the box. Then…
That’s largely correct but misses the point that the battery+pv system is legally only allowed to feed in 800W [1]. On our circuits you can draw ~3.5kW without tripping the breaker. This brings you to 4.3kW max load, which - as far as I understand - is still what all the circuitry must be rated for anyways. The downside is that we have three phase power supply anywhere halfway recent. And that only gives you a single…
Home electrical load safety is based on distribution being a tree, with a breaker for each branch. The branch breaker will trip if there's an overload on that branch. Outlet strips with their own circuit breakers are sub-branches.
This is all worked out in the US under the National Electrical Code, so that you can't overload a branch circuit without tripping a breaker. The UK uses BS 7671, which has the same goals but different topology. Residential users don't have to do load calculations or make measurements.
This thing breaks the simplified rules that make home electrical safety work. The obvious way to get into trouble with this is to plug in two of them on a circuit with heavy loads. Now you have a big source and a big load without a breaker between them. Germany gets this, and requires that a licensed electrician add up the loads, check the topology, and do the install.
One way to make this work safely would be to require a special symmetrical connector, with both sides protected against touch. That has to be on its own branch circuit, with a breaker between it and any loads. That becomes a legit place to plug in source devices.
This is essentially the same as having a dryer or A/C outlet installed.
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
https://www.energy.gov.au/news/new-energy-plan-daily-window-...
Did you read any of that page?
Have you reviewed any of the plans offered by the energy retailers?
1. The plans are optional
2. Only available in New South Wales, South Australia, and South East Queensland
3. You must have a smart meter
4. Only available to residential customers
5. The offer is for three hours during the middle of the day when most people are at work (sometimes four hours depending on retailer)
6. All of the plans offered by energy retailers have higher peak usage charge, the peak times are when most people are cooking, cleaning, bathing, etc. thereby at least somewhat negating the benefits
7. All the plans offered have a higher daily supply charge, again negating at least some of the benefits
I stand by my earlier answer: No.
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
What percentage of buyers do you imagine are gonna buy a battery big enough to saturate 15A*120V=1800W for long? The average home uses 30 kWh per day = 1250W. Batteries don't need to handle peak load. Approximately nobody has a whole home UPS. Also 240V power strips are fairly common in my circles because GPU server PSUs tend to be more efficient at 240V. They're marketed as PDUs, not strips. You're not gonna install…
I'm not clear what point you're making about PDUs. Re 120V outlets, while batteries don't need to supply the full peak load, they are more effective the more of it they can supply. And a home with a heat pump or baseboard heaters, electric range, EV charger, or dryer for example is going to at times significantly exceed the capacity of the 120/15 outlet. Doesn't mean the battery would be useless, just that it wouldn'…
My point about PDUs is that "people don't tend to have one just free" is irrelevant. It's easy to split a 240V outlet into multiple outlets. One of them can be used to inject power. The copper doesn't care which way the electrons go.
Heat pumps and baseboard heaters are pretty uncommon in the US. Natgas furnaces are nearly 100% efficient so I don't expect that to change any time soon
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your argument seems to boil down to: What we’re doing isn’t working, so let’s do more of it . There’s a cost of living crisis in this country effecting the majority of Australians. So let’s make energy more scares, more expensive. I’m with Gad Saad here, in that the one thing that astounds me the most about other people is their inability to change their opinions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Ah, so you are taking the anti capitalist stance. Interesting to see that pop up here. Australia sells its fossil fuels on the global market rather than prioritizing its local market. So when disruptions (like the various wars around) drive up prices, Australia sells the gas at a higher rate. This, in turn, drives up prices locally. Combined with aging and failing coal infrastructure, which isn't producing as much or…
> Ah, so you are taking the anti capitalist stance.
How did you get that from anything I’ve written here, or anything I’ve written anywhere ever?
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but now we're talking about some freak situation where you have multiple sources with a combined allowed load of more than 32amps with 3 or more connected devices drawing at their max rating or above, but only when on battery power when you have no grid connection. Like, it could happen but we're entering the "fun to think about" territory.
Why not when grid connected? The problem arises when you are grid connected. You draw 31 amps from the grid, you draw 6-7 per battery or solar installation behind the circuit breaker . The circuit never trips because the amount crossing the breaker is 31 amps, but the wires could be dealing with 37+. With battery and solar that could be 43+. Some idiot puts two or three of these in their house or puts them on an exte…
Yes, that's correct. As I pointed out in the other comment, that's already an illegal installation.
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not clear what point you're making about PDUs. Re 120V outlets, while batteries don't need to supply the full peak load, they are more effective the more of it they can supply. And a home with a heat pump or baseboard heaters, electric range, EV charger, or dryer for example is going to at times significantly exceed the capacity of the 120/15 outlet. Doesn't mean the battery would be useless, just that it wouldn'…
My point about PDUs is that "people don't tend to have one just free" is irrelevant. It's easy to split a 240V outlet into multiple outlets. One of them can be used to inject power. The copper doesn't care which way the electrons go. Heat pumps and baseboard heaters are pretty uncommon in the US. Natgas furnaces are nearly 100% efficient so I don't expect that to change any time soon
Oh, I see. Yeah, good point about splitting a 240V outlet. Not as convenient as having them everywhere, but it'd certainly be possible.
NG may be 100% efficient, but heat pumps are like 300%+ in terms of electricity to indoor heat. And you get air conditioning.
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s largely correct but misses the point that the battery+pv system is legally only allowed to feed in 800W [1]. On our circuits you can draw ~3.5kW without tripping the breaker. This brings you to 4.3kW max load, which - as far as I understand - is still what all the circuitry must be rated for anyways. The downside is that we have three phase power supply anywhere halfway recent. And that only gives you a single…
Home electrical load safety is based on distribution being a tree, with a breaker for each branch. The branch breaker will trip if there's an overload on that branch. Outlet strips with their own circuit breakers are sub-branches. This is all worked out in the US under the National Electrical Code, so that you can't overload a branch circuit without tripping a breaker. The UK uses BS 7671, which has the same goals bu…
You are aware, that the normal Balkonkraftwerk is plugged in with a standard Schuko plug? This _only_ works because there is no licensed electrician involved. The personal cost would add at least 50% of the total expenditure and it is made safe by reducing the safety margin by the up to 800W that the Balkonkraftwerk supplies on that circuit
Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow
#140"the battery pays back from around 2.5 years onwards" So around 1000 charge/discharge cycles? That is roughly the ability of a battery. By the time you break even, it's time to spend again.
LiFePO4 batteries generally sit upwards of 3000-8000 cycles to 80 percent original charge.... Depends on what your chemistry is. As the batteries improve, you'll probably want to upgrade every 8-10 years or add/swap out a 1/4 to 1/2 storage by that time, still able to use effectively even if a little lower top end. Depends on your usage and if you're still on grid.
That's god to know, I don't know why I was assuming they were Lithium ion...