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How we can reduce traffic congestion

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Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#131

Post by protocolture »

ctkhn wrote: post #52

Surely the top way to avoid traffic congestion would be communities where it's possible to live near where you work, shop, go out, etc. and not doing everything else exactly the same but taking a slightly different highway in your car

>Surely the top way to avoid traffic congestion would be communities where it's possible to live near where you work, shop, go out, etc. and not doing everything else exactly the same but taking a slightly different highway in your car

I dont even know what this would look like in practice. It feels like an inner city thing, lifestyle priced accordingly.

What Socialists/Communists/Liberals/Conservatives/Local and State Governments/Weird Internet Tech Bros all seem to forget is that people have different priorities, and you cant build 1 house that suits every priority.

I am house hunting at the moment, and houses optimised for walking to shops are at the low end, when what I need is a big yard for my kid to run around in and a shed for my blacksmithing tools (and ideally neighbors far enough away that they dont mind metal being banged on in the morning) while also being within reasonable driving distance of a few of the sites I work at.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#132

Post by asdff »

7jjjjjjj wrote: post #103
clickety_clack wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds simple, but many people are already living further away because they can’t afford to live downtown near where they work. Add kids into the equation, and many people who could live there without them are also forced out. Congestion pricing is a regressive tax.

The most regressive tax imaginable is a flat fee for every person with no consideration of income. That is exactly the effect of requiring everyone to own a car.

It isn’t a flat fee per se, if only because wealthier people are too prideful. Rich man buys a 100k mercedes. Poor man buys that mercedes 15 or 20 years later for 3k. It still does what it did when it cost 100k.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#133

Post by cortesoft »

waterTanuki wrote: post #118
cortesoft wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/277/ Most cities have some intelligence on their traffic lights, and they do have traffic sensors to know where cars are waiting. You might not see any cars and are annoyed waiting at the light, but you don’t know what downstream things they are trying to control for. Maybe if they send you through the light, you are going to join some other traffic event that will cause an issue. It c…

I like XKCD but I don't really agree with the underlying premise of this one. When I was in the Netherlands, one of the global gold standards in terms of urban planning and design, I noticed it wasn't only more pleasant as a pedestrian or cyclist, it was more pleasant as a driver as well. Lights were smart and did not sit on red forever if you were the only one waiting at an intersection. This comic suggests there's…

I don't think the answer is as simple as "The Dutch have better traffic light engineers"

There are a ton of factors that go into traffic and traffic patterns. For one thing, I would be curious to see total traffic numbers.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#134

Post by asdff »

SilverElfin wrote: post #93
collabs wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is difficult for me to admit I'm an idiot but when I was younger and living in an apartment, I loved the idea of a single family home. And now that I'm living in a single family home, I feel like I was wrong all along. Not that I want to go back to the apartment I was in before. Dear lord no but the idea of a mixed use building not too tall only like first floor with high ceilings for business or shops with two or…

Do you have kids? I feel like apartment living as a family is worse than a spacious single family home and yard and all that. I suspect that preference holds true for most people.

Most kids are only into playing in the yard for a couple years really. Before long they are preteens living in their room, probably seething at the fact they need a ride from a parent to hang out with any of their friends.

Apartments can also have stuff you could never afford that a kid would like, such as a massive pool (try pricing out a new build pool these days).

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#135

Post by mayneack »

Aurornis wrote: post #76
ctkhn wrote: post #52

Surely the top way to avoid traffic congestion would be communities where it's possible to live near where you work, shop, go out, etc. and not doing everything else exactly the same but taking a slightly different highway in your car

This is possible if you’re not picky about where you live, where you work, your career options, how crowded your local vicinity is, or how much you pay for your residence. The more your preferences or financial constraints come into play, the more you have to give up. Most people settle in for driving because it allows them to pick from more job options than those that happen to be located near their house and more h…

The relative price of those cramped urban centers where this is true suggests that at least a few more people would choose this path if it were cheaper.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#136

Post by asdff »

xnx wrote: post #126
adrianN wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is little hope for that as long as driving is heavily subsidized.

How is driving subsidized?

Massive ongoing investment into roads. EV incentives that would pay for 3-4 ebikes outright. Big 3 bailout. Cash for clunkers. Impact fees from developers towards roads. As others said parking requirements. There is so much beyond that too.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#137

Post by asdff »

SilverElfin wrote: post #94
slyall wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well just live somewhere that is so lacking in density there is no congestion. Or a small town that is surrounded by farms. Just avoid suburban housing as far as the eye can see with a limited number of roads everyone gets funneled on to.

I’ve done that and those areas change over time. A town becomes more like a small city. A small city becomes more dense. Etc. Then all the urbanists move the goal posts and ask why you didn’t live somewhere else.

Just move to the rust belt. If you are going to move to a growing job market don’t be surprised when the job market grows and triggers demand for development.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#139

Post by asdff »

nativeit wrote: post #77
ventana wrote: post #49

The same things keeps happening every time I find myself stuck in traffic on the interstate. Out of nowhere, a popup appears in Google Maps: a faster route is available! 4 minutes faster! Unless either the passenger or the driver are fast enough to hit "No thanks", the change auto-applies, and Google now wants me to exit the interstate at the nearest exit and drive some random road I had no idea about, to rejoin the…

I’ve just started taking surface roads out of Charlotte at peak hours because I know how to get around, and any route that’s part of Apple/Google maps defaults will invariably be clogged with everyone following their directions. Surface streets tend to be blissfully open these days.

So many god damn unprotected left turns on mapping software. Some of them illegal too like asking you to do it when a sign says no left turns during listed hours.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#140

Post by asdff »

rootusrootus wrote: post #104
ryan_lane wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the revenue generated from congestion pricing, and put it into public transportation. Make public transportation free to use. That would be far more impactful to the folks least able to bear an increase in driving fees. In most of the US, people are forced to own cars because they don't have public transit available, or the available public transit is too infrequent, or there aren't dense enough routes. The reas…

> Why is it fair for public transit riders to have to pay per ride In my city public transit fares only cover something like 10% of the cost. Isn’t that fairly typical? > car owners get to use the infrastructure for free Every place I’ve lived charges a fuel tax to pay for roads.

Fuel tax doesn’t often cover everything. LA metro actually spends an appreciable fraction of its budget on highway and road expansion for example.
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