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StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

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Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#131

Post by jnpnj »

macintux wrote: post #80
ivanjermakov wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forest dumps, random trash Likely you can report such occasions to local authorities via online form. Of course every city/county would have their own.

My city had a very vanilla, but very useful mobile app for submitting problems like missed trash pickup or dead traffic lights. Someone apparently decided it needed to be "more modern", making it nearly unusable for quick reports like traffic light problems while I was stopped at the light. Every page was a separate request to a server, slow JS, etc. They've since improved the flow and performance, but it still asks…

ah yeah pretty common and pretty annoying.. either they had to avoid false issues or maybe there was a regulation forcing the use of a more beefy system (or maybe someone thought it's "better" to use the latest shiny thing)

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#132

Post by throw101010 »

koolala wrote: post #110
throw101010 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again you produce public open-source data when you contribute to OSM, and nothing prevents the military from using it for morally questionable purposes... at the end of the day the only difference is the intermediary that could make a profit selling the data, no?

No, the huge difference is creating the good part. Where is the open data for the general public created from Pokemon GO? You can't stop the military using open data but that is on them. The evil is them getting your private data to have an exclusive advantage people have no control or transparency over.

I was talking about a difference for the bad outcome in this case... if Pokemon Go was open souce and public, the military could have done the same, for that matter the might be doing the same with OSM data to some extend right now and it would be harder to know about it.

Open-source software and data are obviously public goods I support. I was just pointing out that the only "evil" parts here are rent seekers reselling this data and the military... not the people assembling the data (players).

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#134

Post by throw101010 »

black_puppydog wrote: post #107
throw101010 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again you produce public open-source data when you contribute to OSM, and nothing prevents the military from using it for morally questionable purposes... at the end of the day the only difference is the intermediary that could make a profit selling the data, no?

well, I sure don't get to have access to all the pokémon data even if I ask very nicely, do I? I'd think that's a (related but important) difference

I was questioning the qualification of Pokemon Go being "evil" here, it's the data broker and the military who are evil in this case in my opinion. (Making it open-source also doesn't help, as I said we'd only short-circuit the intermediary who sold this data).

Maybe it's a useless nuance, but I don't think Pokemon Go gamers should feel/evil or even that they should be careful the next time they try to entertain themselves.

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#135

Post by maxerickson »

JacobKfromIRC wrote: post #56
earth-tattoo wrote: post #51

It sucks that Google is probably using OSM data to check what they are missing and adding it to their maps, but we can't do vice versa. OSM should change their license to something like if you use our data, you have to make yours open as well.

The license seems to already require this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright/ Maybe I am misunderstanding the summary, but it says: "If you publicly use any adapted version of this database, or works produced from an adapted database, you must also offer that adapted database under the ODbL." https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/ >

They probably aren't really using the OSM data.

For example, if I use Google Maps to drive to a new neighborhood and then take a bunch of notes about the new neighborhood, my notes are not subject to the terms and conditions of Google Maps.

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#136

Post by jampekka »

jorvi wrote: post #46
jllyhill wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that the best way to get the phones and opening hours is to walk in person and look them up. Any source for the automated collection is way more likely to be outdated/wrong than what the sign or the person behind the counter tells you. And can also have non-permissive license not compatible with the OSM license.

Raw Information cannot be licensed, and I am not sure why OSM sticks to the policy that it can. Google Maps does not hold the rights to which opening hours Bob's Bakery keeps. If someone entered them from Bob's Bakery their site onto Maps, you are free to type it off of Maps onto OSM. Legally anyway. OSM themselves still hold the policy you can't, so you should adhere to that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Google’s lawyer army could explain to some Google-paid arbitrator how it’s in their interest to find that such behavior violates Google’s database copyright under legislation of Google’s choosing.

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#138

Post by tga_d »

0l wrote: post #17
Ajedi32 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually if I need to add a footpath I use the "Create new track recording" feature to trace out the path with GPS, then come back to it later on desktop. Adding paths is pretty awkward to do on mobile, especially since there's no satellite overlay.

FYI someone else has probably already traced this through Strava, which is allowed to be used for tracing: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strava#Data_Permission_-... >

Strava doesn't have complete coverage, especially on newer trails, but more importantly: doing the trace via Street Complete attaches it to an OSM note with an optional (but encouraged) photo. This additional context makes it a lot more useful for editors than an ordinary trace, which can just as easily be an actual trail, a desire path, or someone deciding to improvise a shortcut through some brush. Even if the note just contains the word "trail", that helps us (though more detail is greatly appreciated, of course).

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#139

Post by mrpeek »

TeddyDD wrote: post #57
Ajedi32 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

StreetComplete lets you place trash cans and benches too (among other things) using the "Things" overlay. IMO Every Door has a much more complicated UI, though it's also more of a full featured editor than StreetComplete. (Though still less so than something like Vespucci.)

Each to their own, I use both for different things, I like EveryDoor UI better for placing POIs.

Is this better than GoMap?

Re: StreetComplete: Fixing OpenStreetMap, one tiny quest at a time

#140

Post by Aachen »

cube00 wrote: post #90
cwillu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various driving/delivery apps ultimately use OSM data. Doordash and instacart both use it to various degrees via mapbox, for instasnce.

As evil as they are, it's hearting to see the delivery platforms are embracing OSM when they could probably afford to just pay for Google's Maps API. It gives hope that Google/ESRI won't always be the dominant mapping platform, however OSM is still missing a lot of local businesses which the delivery platforms don't need as urgently as house numbers so there's less focus there.

> It gives hope that Google/ESRI won't always be the dominant mapping platform

Are they? I get the impression that only consumer-facing stuff is Google, to give people a familiar color scheme¹ as well as allow terribly formatted search queries to still work (if google can do one thing it's search). However, anything using geo data in a back-end fashion seems about evenly split between government base maps, OpenStreetMap, and a collection of misc providers that Google is one of

¹ conversely, I struggle to find my home town on Google Maps. It's all about vague, washed-out shapes, besides the bright shop icons and, nowadays, advertising pins. It's a matter of what you're used to so I can very much understand that the average consumer, who's less familiar with maps than me, is totally lost when getting Carto as a map

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