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Vite+ Beta

voidzero.dev

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Re: Vite+ Beta

#131

Post by nlarew »

nicce wrote: post #89
Tadpole9181 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vite, Vitest, Rolldown, tsdown, Oxlint, and Oxfmt You already use the first, the second you should be using and has existed for years - it's a jest-compatible runner integrated to Vite. Rolldown is a part of Vite already (since version 8, alongside other implementing tools like lightnincss). The ox* suite are native replacements for eslint and prettier. The latter has existed for years. Both of them aim to be drop-…

> This is a boring stack. I think the boring stack would skip the need for most of these. That is 5 different tools to write TypeScript in order to get some HTML, CSS and JavaScript for things that are not covered by modern web standards. Not including the frameworks itself which mostly have the same goal.

That's a pretty disingenuous take on the purpose of TS and misses the point of having a stack in general. The tools actually cover a lot more than that.

Yes, if your goal is to get HTML/CSS/JS in any form to a web client then you don't need this stuff.

If your goal is to ship a web app that stands a chance of surviving multiple devs, production traffic, etc then you need more tools. Testing behavior (vitest), enforcing code standards (oxfmt and oxlint), optimizing network calls (e.g. tree shaking from Rollup), etc. all go beyond what you describe.

This stack is as boring as it gets without literally using the tools it consolidates and replaces or dropping a requirement that necessitates them.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#132

Post by greatgib »

pier25 wrote: post #95
montroser wrote: post #61

Vite had five major version in the four years 2022-2026. Version 3 => 4 => 5 => 6 => 7 => 8. Each one of those had breaking changes and required devs to go through a migration. It's too much. And for what? It's not as if it is dramatically better now than it was in version 3. I can't say I would really look forward to bringing this level of needless churn and constant disruption to the rest of my development toolchai…

> It's not as if it is dramatically better now than it was in version 3 Adding stuff for SSR was a major improvement.

SSR is a huge pain in the ass. Now it starts to be hard to have all of that do the frontend properly and let good appropriate languages take care of the backend.

Instead of a stupid, broken and leaky node equivalent backend totally interlocked with code of the frontend.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#133

Post by preommr »

sailorganymede wrote: post #55

I am a big fan of Vite. But I have zero clue what those other tools are. I swear to God, I just put my head down to do some work and all the sudden, frontend tooling has evolved. I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack.

> I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack.

Yea, this.

eslint -> oxlint (but in rust, and fast)

prettier -> oxfmt (but in rust, and fast)

webpack -> vite (...I have thoughts; but vite is popular enough so w/e)

rolldown -> tsdown (ts support, but in rast and fast)

jest -> vitest (works with vite)

It's basically taking the last decade of established conventions and supporting ts, rewriting in rust for speed, and making it all interoperable.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#134

Post by preommr »

ramesh31 wrote: post #126

That "+" is making me really nervous. Is this just a naming quirk, or the start of them trying to monetize Vite? If the latter, this is a dark day for frontend dev.

> Is this just a naming quirk, or the start of them trying to monetize Vite?

VoidZero got acquired by Cloudflare, which gives out insane amounts of free services, I'd be very surprised if vite is the place they try start pinching pennies.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#136

Post by mmusc »

DANmode wrote: post #120
mmusc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently experimenting with a stack combining assistance, ASP.NET Razor Pages, and htmx, specifically to avoid dealing with the complexities of the modern frontend stack. AI eliminates a lot of the tedium, grinding tasks, while HTML partials and htmx complement each other perfectly. Not having to manage frontend framework, SSR states is incredibly liberating. Sprinkle in some vanillla js and redraw specific part…

Are you open to opportunities?

not at the moment :)

Re: Vite+ Beta

#137

Post by c-hendricks »

johnfn wrote: post #123
sunaookami wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say this again when you have worked with Jest, one of the worst and slowest pieces of software I've ever worked with.

And Jest was itself a huge step up from what came before (Jasmine, Mocha...)

I switched to Jest from Mocha and my memory is that Mocha was much faster.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#138

Post by ragnese »

tshaddox wrote: post #119
mort96 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Latest emerging boring but works" sounds like an oxymoron.

So something can only be "boring but works" if it was created before today?

Unfortunately, yes. It's a backward looking metric, like how economists can only call a recession/depression after it's been X months of bad metrics, even if everyone living in the first month of one feels the economy going poorly. We'll only know if these tools are "boring but work" at some point in the future.

The hope is always that "this time will be different". Maybe these tools are so awesome that they'll become a de facto standard and, therefore, "boring". It's JavaScript, so I'm not holding my breath, though.

Re: Vite+ Beta

#140

Post by [deleted] »

nlarew wrote: post #131
nicce wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a boring stack. I think the boring stack would skip the need for most of these. That is 5 different tools to write TypeScript in order to get some HTML, CSS and JavaScript for things that are not covered by modern web standards. Not including the frameworks itself which mostly have the same goal.

That's a pretty disingenuous take on the purpose of TS and misses the point of having a stack in general. The tools actually cover a lot more than that. Yes, if your goal is to get HTML/CSS/JS in any form to a web client then you don't need this stuff. If your goal is to ship a web app that stands a chance of surviving multiple devs, production traffic, etc then you need more tools. Testing behavior (vitest), enforci…

[deleted]
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