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ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

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Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#131

Post by flyinRyan »

DanBC wrote: post #120
abecedarius wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question was not why the ISP would conform to CALEA instead of breaking it; it was why you as a programmer would take on the job of providing a snooping system, instead of some other job that does not need a lot of explanation about why it's actually not really so bad. There are reasonable answers to this, but I think it's a fair question. (I don't agree that 'we' should pursue criminals (or suspects) using a…

I'd rather have good people involved in "evil" systems, to at least try to balance them, than have evil people involved in "evil" systems where there's nothing but external agencies to provide balance. And whatever the system is I'd much rather have competent people working on it.

Couldn't disagree more. Every good person should avoid working with evil systems. We should also excommunicate any people who do work with evil from our circle as best we can so they can't grow as well in their profession.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#132

Post by flyinRyan »

npsimons wrote: post #82
throwit1979 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who has implemented [shallow] inspection/filtering and CALEA-type features on comms equipment for markets both in and outside of the US.) I'm not trying to flame you here, but I really must ask: How do you live with yourself? I know how trollish that sounds, but I seriously don't understand engineers who voluntarily work against our own ethos. It's not like this is an industry in which implementin…

No employee boycott is going to help, they'll just hire someone else. We won't see change until we start electing better leaders, or changing the system. Reduce the demand.

>We won't see change until we start electing better leaders, or changing the system.

No amount of voting is going to help until we get a better voting system... which is set up by the people who get voted in.

You can sit around justifying why you're helping spread evil or you can take control of the only things you can actually change: your own actions.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#133

Post by lttlrck »

ceph_ wrote: post #105
mfukar wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their network.

User traffic is user traffic, if they're paying for it it should be all treated the same. I'm not saying you don't need to prioritize some traffic with QoS. I'm saying you don't need DPI to run a network. Sincerely, A network engineer

User traffic is user traffic is whole lot of different kinds of traffic. So there should be QoS, but how? You cannot depend on the IP Differentiated Services Field, so perhaps heuristics to deduce what the traffic is? Thats prone to misidentifying Netflix vs. CDN download thus ruining UX. No DPI is needed.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#135

Post by nitrogen »

mtgx wrote: post #6
gergles wrote: post #3

And of course you can't even read what they approved, because this extra-governmental body inexplicably restricts the text of their decisions to a nebulous list of "TIES users". Fucking awful.

The technical PDF is here (I shortened it because it was a long Google link): http://bit.ly/Yx0Sya

A useful feature of HN is that it will elide links if they get too long.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#136

Post by npsimons »

flyinRyan wrote: post #131
DanBC wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have good people involved in "evil" systems, to at least try to balance them, than have evil people involved in "evil" systems where there's nothing but external agencies to provide balance. And whatever the system is I'd much rather have competent people working on it.

Couldn't disagree more. Every good person should avoid working with evil systems. We should also excommunicate any people who do work with evil from our circle as best we can so they can't grow as well in their profession.

We should also excommunicate any people who do work with evil from our circle as best we can so they can't grow as well in their profession.

And by doing that, you ensure they will continue to "work with evil systems" because they will never be able to change jobs.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#137

Post by jrogers65 »

Nrsolis wrote: post #129
jrogers65 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologise for the tone of that comment. The problem with due process and the rule of law is that those things are enforced by humans. People invariably suffer from corruption, in particular, those in power. The less they are capable of, the safer everyone is. Governments and corporations have done orders of magnitude more harm than smaller entities like gangs (though from an absolute perspective, the separation bet…

So our legal system is a joke? That's news to me. I'd actually argue that it's been pretty damn effective in keeping our society from devolving into complete bedlam. Your comments reflect all the certitude of someone who has never seen real evil up close. To suggest that a system that functions properly 90% of the time is a worthless endeavor isn't a realistic position I'm willing to argue with. And I don't agree wit…

> Your comments reflect all the certitude of someone who has never seen real evil up close

Real evil? Like Santa Clause and Heaven and God and Angels and Fairies?

I did not say that this system is worse than previous ones and I do not see how that ties into my argument at all. I was making a judgement on what currently exists - and it sucks.

> If the system was as broken as you claim, I seriously doubt we'd have the strength and standing among nations that you seem to ready to dismiss.

Since you appear to be in the US - here are some concrete facts about the judicial system in your country - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta...

That's right, your country jails more people than any other on this planet. But it's not broken, right?

>an estimated 4.8% of black non-Hispanic men were in prison or jail, compared to 1.9% of Hispanic men of any race and 0.7% of white non-Hispanic men.

That's functioning perfectly well, isn't it?

> If you're getting all your information from magazines and wikipedia

Wikipedia is a reputable source and your argument is rooted in a logical fallacy (appeal to authority). http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

> And finally, statements like "The criminals are (for the most part) not the ones we should be worrying about" is simply indefensible. The justice system exists because people demand that it exist to protect them.

People also demand iPhones, junk food, drugs and violence. This is another logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum).

> I know many members of law enforcement.

I did not make a judgement on these people. In WW2, perfectly normal people committed atrocities because their culture and leadership dictated it. Normal people are capable of thoroughly horrible acts.

> I seriously doubt we'd have the strength and standing among nations that you seem to ready to dismiss.

You have your strength and standing because you are an empire with fingers in everyone's pie. The US has overthrown countless democractically elected leaders over the last century for profit. The world does not speak because it will be beaten for it. Why do you think the UN condems Israels actions but does nothing? This is not respect, it is fear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re...

Disagree all you want but the facts speak for themselves.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#138

Post by Nrsolis »

npsimons wrote: post #136
flyinRyan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't disagree more. Every good person should avoid working with evil systems. We should also excommunicate any people who do work with evil from our circle as best we can so they can't grow as well in their profession.

We should also excommunicate any people who do work with evil from our circle as best we can so they can't grow as well in their profession. And by doing that, you ensure they will continue to "work with evil systems" because they will never be able to change jobs.

LOL. I'm assuming you're the authority on what constitutes "evil" right?

You are essentially advocating a fascist viewpoint: either you agree with us, or we crush you.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#139

Post by Nrsolis »

jrogers65 wrote: post #137
Nrsolis wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So our legal system is a joke? That's news to me. I'd actually argue that it's been pretty damn effective in keeping our society from devolving into complete bedlam. Your comments reflect all the certitude of someone who has never seen real evil up close. To suggest that a system that functions properly 90% of the time is a worthless endeavor isn't a realistic position I'm willing to argue with. And I don't agree wit…

> Your comments reflect all the certitude of someone who has never seen real evil up close Real evil? Like Santa Clause and Heaven and God and Angels and Fairies? I did not say that this system is worse than previous ones and I do not see how that ties into my argument at all. I was making a judgement on what currently exists - and it sucks. > If the system was as broken as you claim, I seriously doubt we'd have the…

Kettle: "Hey Pot! You're black!"

The US isn't perfect, but there is no other place in the world I'd rather live. For all our faults, people still bang on the doors to get in.

I'd put our record up against that of any other nation in the world. ANY nation. Look hard enough at everyone else and you'll find all the reason you need to hate their countries too.

Re: ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection Recommendation

#140

Post by aidenn0 »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #59
aidenn0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It let's individual governments "pass the buck" of responsibility. When the objection in parliament is brought up of "This seems like a bad idea" the response is "We're just doing what the ITU recommends"

I can see that working in countries who might be reliant on others for parts of their tech infrastructure. But would that actually work in the UK? Here in the U.S., we like to be the ones creating recommendations for the rest of the world, not following them (at least not blindly). The excuse of "We're just doing what the ITU recommends" would never fly here.

It absolutely works in the US. Look at some of the copyright extension stuff. There were complaints and the response from congress was "We're just normalizing with Europe"
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