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Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

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Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#131

Post by WarmWash »

stephbook wrote: post #69
WarmWash wrote: post #49

The entire article doesn't once stipulate that the grounds for banning a Chinese owned car is having telemetry that phones home to China. Maybe Volvo still does and it's a mystery why they can still sell here. Maybe Volvo doesn't and there is no story here. But if the car talks to China and gets updates from China, the US doesn't care if it's built here.

Do you have an official announcement this is the case or are you just making excuses for this administration?

https://www.bis.gov/connected-vehicles

It is from the Biden era too, nothing to do with "this administration". Just common sense governing.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#132

Post by xethos »

WarmWash wrote: post #129
idiotsecant wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a remarkable opinion. If we have problems with consumer-hostile behaviour like tracking users, remotely disabling vehicles, or other things like that we should outlaw those behaviours in products used in the US. We will never do that because Western auto manufacturers want to be able to behave badly in the same way Chinese manufacturers might and they have a firm grasp on the American governments leash. 'Its…

It has nothing to do with consumer hostile behaviors. Its bad when a hostile foreign government has control over and information about (think blackmail, not ads) your citizens. A junior engineer on the x-500 future fighter jet drives a polestar and seems to be visiting the house of a single woman (which they know from tiktok days) while his family would probably think he would be at work. Will this guy throw away his…

> Its [sic] bad when a hostile foreign government has [...] information about [...] your citizens

How many domestic automotive manufacturers does America have, and how many times has the current administration threatened annexation of their Northern "ally"?

This is, at best, hypocrisy; and being on the recieving end of the annexation threats, I'm disinclined to use the most generous interpretation of America's "Rules for me but not for thee" attitude

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#133

Post by deaux »

chvid wrote: post #63
ronsor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. It's very difficult for US or Western companies in general to do business in China without opaque restrictions, corruptions, and share ownership hoops. If the US is playing games, then it's closer to kids playing soccer on weekends; China is already in the pro leagues.

The simple story is: If you go to China you will see US brands everywhere. If you go to the US, you will see Chinese brands nowhere.

Anker/Ugreen, Shokz, Insta360, RoboRock, League of Legends, Genshin Impact/Honkai Star Rail, Lenovo, TikTok, Shein, Temu.

> If you go to the US, you will see Chinese brands nowhere.

You'll see the above very commonly in people's homes and on people's phones in the US. You're making the mistake of limiting your view to "retail businesses on the street" when those have been going out of fashion in the first place. All of the above are brands that are commonly seen in the US and a lot of people (especially those under 30) are familiar with.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#134

Post by ifwinterco »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #125
ifwinterco wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could only avoid it indefinitely if your operations are balanced, i.e. you make some stuff in China and sell it in the US, but also make something in the US and sell it in China. Otherwise if you make everything in China and sell it in the US you'll eventually have to transfer USD from your US operation to your Chinese operation to pay suppliers, labour, taxes etc.

You wouldn't have to make it in the US, or even make it at all, you would only have to pay for it there. You also wouldn't have to deliver it to the place you want the money to end up, only to the location of someone willing to pay you there. You could be paying US dollars at a bank in New York to a company based in Australia to have them deliver iron ore to a company in India willing to pay you for it in China.

I think actually Tobin tax is the wrong word sorry. I don't mean just taxing FX transactions, I mean taxing all cross-border capital flows. So yes you can do everything in dollars (and a lot of the time the dollars never need to leave New York)

But eventually you do have to pay the workers and taxes in China in yuan, and ultimately that money comes from the US consumer, making some kind of US capital account transaction inevitable?

Maybe I'm missing something but I think it does work because ultimately a current account deficit mathematicaly has to be exactly balanced with a capital account surplus. You can attack the current account side with tariffs, but it's actually more elegant to attack the capital account surplus instead

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#135

Post by WarmWash »

xethos wrote: post #132
WarmWash wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with consumer hostile behaviors. Its bad when a hostile foreign government has control over and information about (think blackmail, not ads) your citizens. A junior engineer on the x-500 future fighter jet drives a polestar and seems to be visiting the house of a single woman (which they know from tiktok days) while his family would probably think he would be at work. Will this guy throw away his…

> Its [sic] bad when a hostile foreign government has [...] information about [...] your citizens How many domestic automotive manufacturers does America have, and how many times has the current administration threatened annexation of their Northern "ally"? This is, at best, hypocrisy; and being on the recieving end of the annexation threats, I'm disinclined to use the most generous interpretation of America's "Rules…

You don't have to buy any American products, and can vote for politicians that want to ban American access to Canadian markets.

Countries have been spying on each other (and their citizens) for centuries. Its not hypocrisy so much as run of the mill geopolitics.

Also, this rule is from the Biden administration, not Trump.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#137

Post by carlivar »

mukbangpervert wrote: post #12
SilverElfin wrote: post #2

It’s because the Polestar cars have a lot more electronic surveillance than the Volvo models, which have had only minor tweaks and have mostly not been updated for years.

Correction: it is because a major Republican donor wants Chinese cars banned, because they beat the living shit out of his offerings on quality and value. It is silly to credulously pretend that the excuse about Chinese software has even a whiff of legitimacy.

Isn't this using Biden administration guidelines?

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#138

Post by Schiendelman »

carlivar wrote: post #136
Schiendelman wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you have the R2 now!

With screen operated motorized vents. Eww.

Same as the Polestar.

Honestly, I think that ship has sailed, most users don't want the vents visible at all anymore, and that means no little tabs. I agree it's a bummer, but it's like 400th on my ranked priority list of things to care about when buying a car.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#139

Post by riskd »

WarmWash wrote: post #135
xethos wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its [sic] bad when a hostile foreign government has [...] information about [...] your citizens How many domestic automotive manufacturers does America have, and how many times has the current administration threatened annexation of their Northern "ally"? This is, at best, hypocrisy; and being on the recieving end of the annexation threats, I'm disinclined to use the most generous interpretation of America's "Rules…

You don't have to buy any American products, and can vote for politicians that want to ban American access to Canadian markets. Countries have been spying on each other (and their citizens) for centuries. Its not hypocrisy so much as run of the mill geopolitics. Also, this rule is from the Biden administration, not Trump.

What’s your actual point here? Is it that no country should ever trust another because they can one day turn hostile? Are you advocating that all global trade of electronic-based products should be banned?

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#140

Post by graemep »

neogodless wrote: post #123
graemep wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From other comments where telemetry goes to, and possibly the level of remote control in the cars. It appears to be a general ban on "connected vehicles" controlled from certain countries even if built in the US[1], so I would guess that Volvo does not meet the criteria for that. 1. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/usa/polestar-has-been-banne...

My Polestar has the word "Volvo" on several parts. They share a software stack and get the same updates.

Who deploys and controls it? Do they operate separately, use the same servers etc.
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