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The room the economy can't see

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Re: The room the economy can't see

#131

Post by mym1990 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #99
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That objection applies to the other options as well. Believe in... I like the market because it lets me make more choices of my own. I don't like zoning codes because too often they are placing restrictions that restrict freedom for some value that isn't objective.

Markets create the illusion of choice between monopolies. I don't like monopolies because they restrict my freedom far more than zoning codes do. Ultimately markets are not a democratic choice. You can choose a Mac or a PC, or Amazon vs Netflix. You (often) can't choose to join a union, to get affordable healthcare that won't bankrupt you, or to have a national policy that prioritises the needs of renters over the pr…

I feel like in this case, the “Amazon or Netflix” example is particularly bad because I feel like I’m actually drowning in streaming providers.

You will also typically have the option to simply opt out, although this is getting less rare.

I think my point is that there are typically still many options, but the best options are controlled by few players.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#132

Post by inigyou »

dh2022 wrote: post #115
bluGill wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I care about a trash incinerator? The truth is I don't. I care that my air is clean -that includes smell. I care that the trash gets there safely (when on the public roads the drivers need to be safe even when my kids are riding their bikes on the road). There are a few other issues. However the incinerator itself I'm not against.

I don’t follow. Your first sentence says you do not care about trash incinerators, presumably next to your house. Your second sentence says you care about the smell. Trash incinerators are very smelly. You are contradicting yourself. I don’t get it.

But if someone invented a new type that didn't smell, it should be allowed. Regulate consequences, not causes. The power substation down the road is disguised as a brick house, because the rule was ultimately about maintaining the look of the area and not about forbidding power substations.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#133

Post by pixl97 »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #5

It is clear that having that room exist is a priority for some people. The market doesn't have a will of its own or compels people to be efficient and produce returns (which, by the way, this room surely produces down the line). The market is the cumulative wants and needs of the people matched against the cumulative offerings of the same people. Nothing more and nothing less. This room is clearly a need and a want f…

>The market is the cumulative wants and needs of the people matched against the cumulative offerings of the same people

Ah, what about the market for human suffering? I mean, there are people that want other people to suffer, and I'm sure there are people that want to suffer, so this market should exist right?

The thing is the market exists between the laws and regulations we have, and regulations that prevent a public harm can sometimes disincentivize a public good. You sound like of libertarian so you'd just say "get rid of the regulations" which is all fine and good until YOU get ate by the bear.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#134

Post by andrewflnr »

roenxi wrote: post #65

I think the premise here is wrong; the market is perfectly capable of coming up with communal spaces. Some of the nicest buildings in a small town can be the churches, for example. The issue is creating a space for a group of teenagers to exist in would be a legal hornets nest that anyone touching it would get stung by. It is a sex scandal waiting to happen, a fight waiting to happen, a drug den waiting to happen and…

Churches are funded by donations, not sales. They're a prime example of what the article is talking about.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#136

Post by jplusequalt »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #28
phkahler wrote: post #22

>> A basic floor of income that everyone gets, Surely the author has to know that providing UBI is just going to lead to inflation of rent, food, and transportation.

Bunch of research on this, and while it does lead to some inflation, so long as competition is acting on the market only a small percentage goes on this.

The real issue isn't inflation, it's that UBI is too bloody expensive in practice.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#137

Post by inigyou »

cousin_it wrote: post #102
cogman10 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary issue is the people that live in "no poors allowed" area can literally push the poors out of a voting area and thus use their "no poors allowed" policies to take over local governments. Which ultimately allows them to expand the "no poors allowed" zones. Another major issue is there's a false impression about what's profitable when it comes to property ownership. That, in turn, drives up the price of prop…

Your heart is in the right place, but I want to push back a bit. Zoning is a red herring, sure, but landlords and airbnb are a red herring too. The truth is worse. The natural bloc for restricting housing construction and increasing home values is all homeowners! Everyone with a mortgage, too! Maybe the fight is still winnable, but we need to see clearly what we're up against.

Everyone who owns a home is incentivized to keep the property value up, but not all of them actually feel and respond to that incentive. In the same way that a pig farm owner is incentivised to keep the beautiful clean nature, but makes more money farming smelly pigs instead.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#138

Post by mindslight »

The act of visiting grandma doesn't need to be legible to the economy, rather the time that might possibly be used to visit grandma needs to be illegible to the economy.

Speaking from a US perspective, the straightforward solution to this was defining full time work as 40 hours per week, and then incentivizing companies to not go over this (by automatically increasing pay rates). In addition, the setup where men worked in economically-legible employment while women did not effectively halved this number.

That number was never updated with women entering the workforce, nor with automation, offshoring, etc. Meanwhile the whole idea was undermined with the dynamic of "exempt" salary positions. That limit of 40 hours per week should be something like 15 hours per week in the modern world!

Furthermore, the surplus income from all this extra employment didn't end up going into workers' savings, thus creating a natural market feedback where workers would have more market power and insist on working less (as the marginal utility from the dollars for each hour worked would be less). Rather it went into nearly-zero-sum competition for housing (aka rent), which the article touches on as the forcing function that demands continued high-hour employment.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#139

Post by pixl97 »

phkahler wrote: post #22

>> A basic floor of income that everyone gets, Surely the author has to know that providing UBI is just going to lead to inflation of rent, food, and transportation.

>that providing UBI is just going to lead to inflation of rent, food, and transportation

Please tell me what's different than what I am seeing right now without UBI?

Re: The room the economy can't see

#140

Post by inigyou »

readgrounded wrote: post #61

As a parent, I've always wished that something like that would exist in the united states. I live in a nice town in the northeast but kids hang out at a local dunkin donuts or gas station or cvs. We have some of the highest property tax rates in the country and families move here specifically for the school system so there are a lot of young kids and there are a few playgrounds for younger kids but for 10-18 year old…

Do you have a garage? Is it fully occupied by a car?
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