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The AI Hate Progression

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Re: The AI Hate Progression

#131

Post by bloody-crow »

lbrito wrote: post #92
comrade1234 wrote: post #29

I have a coworker that irrationally hated ai too. He says something about how his daughter and friends' hobby is jailbreaking ai. We have a product used in call centers. It turns out ai is amazing in triaging (surveying) people. We can ask a question in English and if they respond n another language (any language) the ai will switch to that language, ask its questions, and then give us the answers in English. This wa…

Maybe the call centers should hire more people able to speak in those foreign languages. I know, paying people for work? Crazy idea.

Maybe we should also replace traffic signals with a man with a stick directing traffic.

And put a guy on every gas pump in the country so they could pump your gas.

And bring back the telephone network operators that connect you to whoever you want to talk to.

Nah, paying people for work is crazy.

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#132

Post by hectdev »

pesus wrote: post #128
hectdev wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, take a look around. comments are downvoted for not agreeing with the topic, not for lack a validity. You, yourself, are ganging up on commenter and painting people with broad strokes. That is quintessentially a space where dissenting opinions aren't allowed.

My opinions get downvoted all the time. I've seen my own comments fluctuate in real time. Such is the world of online discussion boards. > You, yourself, are ganging up on commenter and painting people with broad strokes. No need to complain about "not being allowed to have a dissenting opinion" and then complain about people disagreeing with you. That's not what "ganging up" means. If we're concerned about the HN gu…

OK but the ones here are of a certain bias to the discussion. It isn't downvote based on merit, it's downvote based on disagreement with where it falls pros/con to the topic. A discussion on the shape of the comment section isn't a complaint on downvotes alone.

You don't need to define my position or my definitions, I said what I said and meant it as such based on a specific comment in this thread you authored.

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#133

Post by dvt »

jolmg wrote: post #130
dvt wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny example, because if you create a flyer, you own the copyright to said flyer :) So if you create a flyer, then if someone else uses that flyer to make money, you can sue them and you will win in court (unless the derived work is transformative, critiques it, yadda yadda). And this is the kind of hair-splitting that can get you into trouble, because I think it's trivial that ChatGPT's training is certainly more t…

> then if someone else uses that flyer to make money, you can sue them and you will win in court (unless the derived work is transformative, critiques it, yadda yadda). Not a lawyer, but 1) consider that sharing flyers is the normal use of the thing, and it's precisely what the business wants, to have their marketing spread to whoever needs them. 2) Doubt there's a law that whatever permission you implicitly granted…

You're confusing distribution with copyright. Even free flyers or public YouTube videos are copyrighted. If you draw a flyer then I use that flyer as a cover for a book I'm selling, you will likely win in court. (I say likely because it's up to the judge, but there's a lot of case law here.)

> permission you implicitly granted

There is nothing you implicitly grant anyone, except for ownership (which is explicit, because I gave the thing to you).

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#134

Post by happytoexplain »

neonstatic wrote: post #25
avaer wrote: post #3

A sentiment a lot of people can get behind, but at this point if AI is getting a do-over, society is getting a do-over, because the economic entanglements are not really fixable without a revolution of current capitalism. The amount of money that would evaporate if we did AI ethically is unfathomable. Most of big tech would collapse if they had to undo anything they did using stolen IP, as would a large section of th…

This endless moaning about "capitalism" is lamentable. You are looking at an oligopoly, degenerated through the mechanisms of American-style democracy, but you attribute it all to capitalism, an economic system, not ideology, because it became fashionable to hate on it during the financial crisis of 2007.

One man's "fashionable" is another man's "popular for concrete reasons".

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#136

Post by recursive »

colechristensen wrote: post #105
recursive wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat isn't going away. Your vegetarianism isn't helping anyone.

I feel the same way about vegetarians. I don't care what you choose to not eat. If you go around spreading hate for people that don't make the same choice and break up relationships over other people not making the same choice as you, there I have a problem.

If you invite me to your house, and then serve me meat, and keep doing it, I probably won't come back. (I'm not actually vegetarian)

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#137

Post by jason_oster »

pesus wrote: post #45
altcognito wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The idea of AI is fundamentally tainted" What does this even mean? You don't like machine learning? You don't like the letters AI? There's no coming back to what? Do you work in the tech industry?

That's the problem with conflating LLMs and image/video generation - they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't. I mean the idea of AI (or at least what these companies are calling AI) is fundamentally tainted in the public's eye. People aren't suddenly going to start loving it after everything that's happened in the past ~5 years or so, even if it was somehow restarted. > Do you work in the te…

> they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't.

Why should they be separate? The same technology generates text, images, video, audio, 3D models, actuator and stepper motor control sequences, video game controller input streams, and literally everything else that can be transformed into data.

I'll let alone the question of whether or not any of the tech is "tainted", because it doesn't matter. Planck's principle tells us how this will play out in the long run.

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#138

Post by comrade1234 »

danaris wrote: post #120
comrade1234 wrote: post #29

I have a coworker that irrationally hated ai too. He says something about how his daughter and friends' hobby is jailbreaking ai. We have a product used in call centers. It turns out ai is amazing in triaging (surveying) people. We can ask a question in English and if they respond n another language (any language) the ai will switch to that language, ask its questions, and then give us the answers in English. This wa…

Well, it will give you something in English. You don't actually know that it's a) asking them the questions you asked, rather than just something it hallucinated that seemed plausible in their language, or b) relaying to you a translation of their answers, rather than just something it hallucinated that seems plausible in English. Because LLMs will always, always, always hallucinate. They are not reliable, and this i…

I was on an academic NSA project 10+ years ago for extracting metaphors from text. It was necessary for translations - the metaphor "my lawyer is a shark" has completely different meanings in different cultures/languages. We started out using taxonomies/trees of words. The word "lawyer" is not an animal but the word "shark" is, so it's probably a metaphor. The NSA said that this was the wrong approach so we switched to an ngrams approach which also worked.

However these llm models are surprisingly good at understanding metaphors and how they are interpreted in different cultures. Better than a human.

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#139

Post by colechristensen »

recursive wrote: post #136
colechristensen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about vegetarians. I don't care what you choose to not eat. If you go around spreading hate for people that don't make the same choice and break up relationships over other people not making the same choice as you, there I have a problem.

If you invite me to your house, and then serve me meat, and keep doing it, I probably won't come back. (I'm not actually vegetarian)

Ok but will you disown me if I mention cheeseburgers?

Re: The AI Hate Progression

#140

Post by sublinear »

empath75 wrote: post #59
pesus wrote: post #5

Good write up, and I think it accurately sums up many people's feelings about AI. One thing I would disagree with is the idea of AI getting a do over. Even if they somehow managed to do that, the idea of AI is fundamentally tainted for whole generations of people, and its reputation only gets worse every day. There's no coming back from that any time soon.

Statements like this are just totally detached from reality. AI products are incredibly popular, even amongst people who say they dislike “AI”. Maybe that acronym is tainted, but the technology isn’t going anywhere.

"The technology" isn't all that useful apart from search engine summaries and voice recognition. "Incredibly popular" is an empty statement. Of course everyone uses that stuff. So what?

This is all purely iterative on what we already had long before the buzz about "AI". At some point you just have to admit this was all a grift scraped together to drum up some business during an economic downturn. I don't think many are that mad about it, but the hype needs to stop already.

People were underwhelmed. We're heading into another AI winter. The datacenters were always for defense and surveillance. Deals will fall through and only half will finish being built.

The majority of experts were saying this years ago. Let it go man.

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