One of the stupidest things about this is we talk all day along about how frontier models don’t just interpolate distribution, then can extrapolate out. Then something like this comes along and a model can generate gore or CSAM so therefore there must be gore or CSAM in the training data. Eye roll.
ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
131–140 of 211 posts
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#132I do wonder why openai didn't screen obvious gore from the training set of a general purpose model. That said, the write up is overly dramatic. If you find such imagery so disturbing to come across then you definitely shouldn't be voluntarily red teaming AI models. This is like someone who is afraid of violent confrontation becoming a police officer. I suspect the author is wrong about there being output filters to b…
There are individuals who actively enjoy or even seek out this kind of graphic content. I never understood why they aren’t recruited more as their unique talent would probably help them excel in this kind of career. I remember on Reddit someone was writing about how he gets “gore boners” from this stuff. Why mentally abuse normal minded individuals for this work? Obviously they can’t handle it and probably go home ev…
If you find me €150k job where I just sit and watch gore all day long then I'll take the job immediately.
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are individuals who actively enjoy or even seek out this kind of graphic content. I never understood why they aren’t recruited more as their unique talent would probably help them excel in this kind of career. I remember on Reddit someone was writing about how he gets “gore boners” from this stuff. Why mentally abuse normal minded individuals for this work? Obviously they can’t handle it and probably go home ev…
If the work has the potential to cause a mental disturbance then you want the baseline to be fairly close to normal. If the guy that gets gore boners is tasker with looking at disturbing content all day and then had some sort of mental break it would probably be a lot worse than what a normal person might end up doing.
Hiring the acknowledged gore enthusiast with the devil tattoo’s and light criminal record miiiight impact the foreseeability of negative outcomes in or as a result of the workplace.
Maybe people with memory issues or lack of empathetic responses could be used, but even then, you’re piling something odd on something dysfunctional.
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can a problem that only came into existence a few years ago be declared intractable so quickly. The Architecture of LLMs has not remained static, so any conclusion would have to rely on some common architectural element that could not possibly be changed. Is there any proof to demonstrate that such vulnerabilities must always exist and that there is no way to modify the architecture and have it still work while e…
Math is a fairly old invention and multiplication is commutative, there's your proof. Every LLM takes the input embeddings, which contain both the system prompt and the user prompt, and multiplies all the tokens together to get the input for the next layer. The weights applied to each token vary, but the fact remains. If you want it in code, a DATABASE would do something like: R0 = user_input R1 = value_in_database c…
But consider this: imagine a model that takes an embedding made of 200 values. the first 100 encodes numbers the second encodes letters.
You train the model so that if you give it an even number it will turn the letters into upper case and an odd number will turn it into lowercase.
The numbers represent the prompt. The letters represent the non-prompt data. T
What letter would you give it to make it think the number is odd.
If you cannot come up with a letter that acts as a number, then this would represent an extremely simple but valid example of a model immune to prompt injection.
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's being extended breathlessly into an moral issue. User asked for gory images, got gory images. Will someone please think of the non-existent women who could be hurt by this?
I don't think you understand the concern. Or at least nothing you've communicated suggests you understand it. ChatGPT should never produce images like this. Full stop. Prompted or not, it should refuse. Now we know it's possible to walk around the gate and get it to comply. Are there other, genuinely harmful images that it should never produce? Deepfake revenge porn? Images of specific people being brutalized? I'd ar…
Why not?
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#136I do wonder why openai didn't screen obvious gore from the training set of a general purpose model. That said, the write up is overly dramatic. If you find such imagery so disturbing to come across then you definitely shouldn't be voluntarily red teaming AI models. This is like someone who is afraid of violent confrontation becoming a police officer. I suspect the author is wrong about there being output filters to b…
Show me an abliterated frontier model that is able to breakthrough the surrounding supporting models and actually hold state to produce contraband and I’ll gladly supply my personal image making making a silly face in a compromising position if it wouldn’t make the testers feel better.
Do they need to be tested like this? Yes. But it would take the carbon footprint of a commuter air terminal and the land rights of am small town in the high Sierras …. all converted settlers of Catan style into tokens …. just to lobotomize a fine tuned model to get close.
That said I appreciate the work you’re doing
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok in the SQL example imagine if you had a SQL engine that issued commands encoded in ASCII in the high byte of 16 bit characters, and all non-command data as ASCII in the low byte of 16 bit characters. If user input can only be in the low byte, it cannot influence the command structure. A similar thing could be done with embeddings, a provenance embedding that cannot be set by user input could serve a similar role.…
> Ok in the SQL example imagine if you had a SQL engine that issued commands encoded in ASCII in the high byte of 16 bit characters, and all non-command data as ASCII in the low byte of 16 bit characters. > If user input can only be in the low byte, it cannot influence the command structure. > A similar thing could be done with embeddings, a provenance embedding that cannot be set by user input could serve a similar…
I know what models do at the moment, and I don't know of any doing this approach at the moment, but I don't need to. I don't need to show that this mechanism works. Your claim that the problem is intractable means it is incumbent upon you to show that it won't work.
I provided this particular example to show a way to modify a LLM architecture that may address the problem.
>there is only a single array of tensors which get fed into a giant block of linear algebra and multiplied together.
For starters, that's wrong. If you don't know why an how to make things non-linear then you might not have the understanding that you think you do.
>> You can train a model to not mix things, many models are trained to separate things.
>That is not applicable to this, because segmentation models are not the same thing as LLMs. They have different architectures.
I used that particular example because you said "You cannot separate data that was input by the user and data that is from the system once it is mixed together like that" and that simply is not true. LLMs can do what neural nets do because they contain them, neuralnets can perform functions. If there is any signal distinguishing two things then there is a function that can separate them.
Not knowing how to do this does not mean it cannot be done. An inadequate description of a transformer certainly does not do it.
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Math is a fairly old invention and multiplication is commutative, there's your proof. Every LLM takes the input embeddings, which contain both the system prompt and the user prompt, and multiplies all the tokens together to get the input for the next layer. The weights applied to each token vary, but the fact remains. If you want it in code, a DATABASE would do something like: R0 = user_input R1 = value_in_database c…
I think you might have just discovered why Neural Nets need a non-linear element. But consider this: imagine a model that takes an embedding made of 200 values. the first 100 encodes numbers the second encodes letters. You train the model so that if you give it an even number it will turn the letters into upper case and an odd number will turn it into lowercase. The numbers represent the prompt. The letters represent…
The model you describe is not an LLM - you describe a model with a fixed context length and positional attenuation. Congratulations, the network as described no longer has a functioning attention mechanism which is one of the hallmarks of an LLM.
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's being extended breathlessly into an moral issue. User asked for gory images, got gory images. Will someone please think of the non-existent women who could be hurt by this?
I don't think you understand the concern. Or at least nothing you've communicated suggests you understand it. ChatGPT should never produce images like this. Full stop. Prompted or not, it should refuse. Now we know it's possible to walk around the gate and get it to comply. Are there other, genuinely harmful images that it should never produce? Deepfake revenge porn? Images of specific people being brutalized? I'd ar…
Re: ChatGPT's image generator can be manipulated to produce violent, sexual content
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> this isn't even prompt injection; even if it was, how do you go from "exists" to "for all"? Yes it is, and nice backtrack in the same sentence there. I've laid out plenty of evidence here so far, it's your turn to start thinking. We'll try the Socratic method. Given that every LLM seen so far has been vulnerable to prompt injection attacks, what is your possible basis for thinking that one can be made immune from t…
> yes it is agree to disagree > every LLM has been vulnerable and every OS had bugs > show the logic https://arxiv.org/pdf/1912.10077 > you are the one asserting mappings existed I know? that's why I'm asking? > no useful system can be a pure function why not? surely you can describe useful systems with qm? evolution operator of a closed system seems pretty pure to me it's almost as if you could reformulate anything…
2) You continue to have basic misunderstandings of the issue. That bugs exist in other things does not mean a core design flaw in LLMs can magically be fixed.
3) https://arxiv.org/pdf/1912.10077
This paper doesn’t have any bearing to the question of the separation of user and command data in LLMs. Did you even bother to look at it?
4) Hey you’re the one that made the claim. If you can't event remember why, I can’t help you.
5) Because the world is stateful.
6) Wow so you just decided to add up all the ram after all, huh? If you want to play stupid, like you can’t understand why a real-world linux distribution is stateful while an ideal LLM isn’t, then we can play stupid.
By the broken logic you are trying to apply here, the state space of chatGPT includes the VRAM of all 10,000 GPUs your query runs across. It includes the memory in your computer, it includes the stack of the js interpreter in your browser, it includes the linux kernel itself that all those servers are running on, and so on.