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The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

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Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#131

Post by andor »

eastof wrote: post #61
fhub wrote: post #57

A lot of issues require holding two ideas in your head at once. Age verification chips away at privacy and internet freedom. It likely also reduces harm to some/many/whatever children, even if it’s imperfect and won’t stop everyone. The interesting question is where the right trade off sits. People often end up arguing only one side.

Massively downplaying it to say "chips away" this takes a sledgehammer to the core of internet privacy. In all cases in the world where this has been done before like China or Russia, freedom is also lost shortly after. Of course people only argue one side, the stakes are losing internet privacy and freedom in the entire world if the west also succumbs to these authoritarian policies. It isn't the government's job to…

It’s possible to verify age without disclosing identity. The German national ID (smartcard) allows this, but I’m not aware of any online service making use of the feature. I suppose it’s used offline by cigarette vending machines though.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#132

Post by thatscot27 »

To the people that agree social media is somewhat bad for children (I wish it didn't exist for adults). What do you propose the government do, if not banning it via internet restrictions?

I don't see anyone offering alternate solutions in these conversations and I think the ban is a necessary evil

I do however think the ban should be more nuanced

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#133

Post by Cider9986 »

thatscot27 wrote: post #132

To the people that agree social media is somewhat bad for children (I wish it didn't exist for adults). What do you propose the government do, if not banning it via internet restrictions? I don't see anyone offering alternate solutions in these conversations and I think the ban is a necessary evil I do however think the ban should be more nuanced

They could force the social media companies to federate so you can use the content with different algorithms.

They could regulate the harmful algorithms.

They could make for-profit operating systems implement actually robust and easy parental controls. Anything to give parents more control.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#134

Post by thatscot27 »

Cider9986 wrote: post #133
thatscot27 wrote: post #132

To the people that agree social media is somewhat bad for children (I wish it didn't exist for adults). What do you propose the government do, if not banning it via internet restrictions? I don't see anyone offering alternate solutions in these conversations and I think the ban is a necessary evil I do however think the ban should be more nuanced

They could force the social media companies to federate so you can use the content with different algorithms. They could regulate the harmful algorithms. They could make for-profit operating systems implement actually robust and easy parental controls. Anything to give parents more control.

But how would they serve the first two to kids?

Yeah agree with the last one, but I have wondered if parental controls will breakdown relationships between parent and kids. I see articles now and again about parents controlling kids causing issues?

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#135

Post by d1sxeyes »

thatscot27 wrote: post #132

To the people that agree social media is somewhat bad for children (I wish it didn't exist for adults). What do you propose the government do, if not banning it via internet restrictions? I don't see anyone offering alternate solutions in these conversations and I think the ban is a necessary evil I do however think the ban should be more nuanced

There are two key problems with social media. The first is a people problem. Predators, bullying, etc. This is a difficult problem. The furthest I got in ideating on this was some kind of graph-growth limitation: some proof of physical co-presence or chain-of-trust (i.e. approved by a trusted adult) required for friending.

The second is a product problem. Advertising, the 'algorithm', etc. For that, I do have a suggestion: force all social media sites to have ad-free versions which apply to the accounts of under eighteens, and attempt to reduce 'virality': no like buttons, ways to discourage reposts of original content, etc. so the timelines become less engagement driven.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#136

Post by TitaRusell »

applicative wrote: post #111
throwaway85825 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resources have never been higher. Theres an expectation now that the schools will do everything and pay for everything but its never enough.

Pay is comically non competitive - a fraction of what it would need to be to reconstitute the sixties.

Pay for teachers has ALWAYS been terrible. Governments are shit like that.

But you know what teachers got? Respect. Teachers were part of the elite that ran the village.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#137

Post by TitaRusell »

Barrin92 wrote: post #81
eastof wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massively downplaying it to say "chips away" this takes a sledgehammer to the core of internet privacy. In all cases in the world where this has been done before like China or Russia, freedom is also lost shortly after. Of course people only argue one side, the stakes are losing internet privacy and freedom in the entire world if the west also succumbs to these authoritarian policies. It isn't the government's job to…

>China or Russia, freedom is also lost shortly after. This may come as a shock but neither China or Russia had their first encounter with losses of individual freedom in the 1990s. This is what the OP is talking about, this is the kind of shibboleth of online libertarianism that has little to do with real world policy outcomes. You'll find many similar laws concerning child safety in Norway that you find in China, di…

Americans don't care because the elite will send their kids to private school and raise children in special elitist bubbles.

The proles are allowed to amuse themselves to death.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#138

Post by spants »

It is not about "protecting the kids". This statement is attached to every process that the government wants to roll out that is normally unacceptable to the population.

It is about monitoring and identifying all members of the public - "prove that you are over 16" creates a profile about you that they can track and use.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#139

Post by Alex_toani »

fhub wrote: post #57

A lot of issues require holding two ideas in your head at once. Age verification chips away at privacy and internet freedom. It likely also reduces harm to some/many/whatever children, even if it’s imperfect and won’t stop everyone. The interesting question is where the right trade off sits. People often end up arguing only one side.

[dead]

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#140

Post by api »

Eridrus wrote: post #75
api wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A point I don’t often see made is: the argument that “the parents need to parent” is unintentionally classist. Wealthier people who can afford to have one parent stay home or have babysitters or nannies who will actually supervise the kid can do a much better job monitoring and redirecting than when both parents work long hours and have no money. So poorer kids are going to spend more time scrolling brain rot, which…

There are plenty of tech controls that exist for children's personal technological devices that do not require the state to intervene.

They cost money or take many hours of time. Many families have neither.

For the record I’m not a fan of the way this stuff is being pushed. At the same time, I feel like a lot of people are totally out of touch on a lot of the reasons why some people support this.

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