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Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

newscientist.com

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Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#131

Post by michaelt »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #91
dr_dshiv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norbert Wiener’s cybernetics was based on automated killing — which he beautifully disavowed in peacetime [1]. Which historically is one of the main reasons we think about “Artificial Intelligence” instead of cybernetics (Wiener kind of pissed off the defense dept). [1] “A Scientist Rebels,” 1947 http://lanl-the-back-story.blogspot.com/2013/08/a-scientist-...

> Which historically is one of the main reasons we think about “Artificial Intelligence” instead of cybernetics (Wiener kind of pissed off the defense dept). Cybernetics and artificial intelligence are two distinct fields, though? I have friends with degrees in both, it's not some long lost alternative name for AI (though we're unlikely to see something like Project Cybersyn using cybernetics today instead of some ov…

Before the rise of modern LLMs, when both AI and cybernetics were just futurists’ speculation, some people saw parallels.

For example, thinking humans wouldn’t be displaced by super intelligent machines, but would instead be augmented by them cybernetically, becoming super intelligent while still having a human soul and body.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#133

Post by alamortsubite »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132

The meta keeps evolving. I suppose the next step is to create drones designed to intercept each other. Then swarms of drones will battle it out in the sky fully autonomously.

The next step is virtualization, which will save everyone a lot of time and money.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#134

Post by Bjartr »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132

The meta keeps evolving. I suppose the next step is to create drones designed to intercept each other. Then swarms of drones will battle it out in the sky fully autonomously.

We call this pattern an "Arms Race" for a reason

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#136

Post by alephnerd »

pharos92 wrote: post #130

The world is really at a threshold where it's become openly obvious that technology is not working for the majority of humanity, but a small cabal.

Or, Putin could have decided not to invade Ukraine.

Most drone techs and engineers in Ukraine as well as Russia would prefer a civilian job instead of fighting a protracted war.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#138

Post by alephnerd »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132

The meta keeps evolving. I suppose the next step is to create drones designed to intercept each other. Then swarms of drones will battle it out in the sky fully autonomously.

> The meta...

I hate this kind of terminology with such fervent hatred as someone DefTech adjacent.

It's just the sheer callousness of gamifying warfare.

Edit: can't reply

> How would you have me call it

Tactics.

It's emotionally neutral and sounds less like someone who follows warfare the same way someone follows competitive StarCraft 2 or DoTA.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#139

Post by machomaster »

InexSquirrel wrote: post #103
bluealienpie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference between a targeting a specific piece of military hardware compared to training an AI model to target humans and infrastructure is quite different. This explains why drones that get misdirected will target oil infrastructure in friendly countries.

Agreed. Even some of the latest IR missiles (AIM-9X I believe) also include a visual seeking component to compliment the IR seeker, and try to identify aircraft types based on their outlines (presumably for orienting the missile for maximum damage). You just can't make that distinction with people, especially not if just using IR or the likes. The guy with a rifle slung over his shoulder just happens to look like the…

There are limitations to the technology, but in right scenarios it is perfect.

One should not use it on attack, when people need to distinguish between a soldier and a civilian.

But on a defence, when you need to keep a certain area empty from enemies (and there is nobody else but enemies incoming), then it resembles the usage of mines, only better (both in terms of efficiency and safety/callback/disarm).

Another scenario or cutting the logistics. If you know that a road is only used by military, then letting the automatic drones watch and engage is a great idea.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#140

Post by machomaster »

nickff wrote: post #25
readthenotes1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it just flying to a particular GPS, coordinate and exploding? That's quite a bit different than flying to an area and killing anything that moves...

Some cruise missiles have the ability to detect targets based on camera or infra-red match; on the other side, most (currently-deployed) drone types have at most that same capability. I believe that most of the infamous Shahed long-range drones that Russia has launched against Ukraine have been entirely inertial or satellite navigation based, with no independent re-targeting capability.

Correct. The capability you describe came only recently and only a small part of Shaheds have it.
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