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Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

theregister.com

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Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#131

Post by ksec »

kyrra wrote: post #48
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil's central bank operates their instant payment network Pix [1] [2] [3] for ~$10M/year [4]. Its not that these are small contracts, but that large, inefficient, unnecessary contracts have become the norm (I argue). Similar example from India's UPI payment system [5]. The US has FedNow to move instant payments for pennies, but banking and payment system participants in the US ecosystem are avoiding it to continue…

The BCB in Brazil does very little to operate Pix. It's effectively a P2P system, where the BCB forces all the banks to interop with one-another (and all the banks directly call eachother). They can operate it that cheaply because they do close to nothing technically (they host the main discovery endopints). The only place the BCB actually ingests data is via their reporting mechanisms. UPI is a bit more centralized,…

Thanks for that. I am wondering if anyone have written up a high level technical comparison between different payment systems including Pix, UPI and others.

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#132

Post by derektank »

mahmoudimus wrote: post #130
bigfatkitten wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small beer anyway, it's not like people are paying taxes via card. I do. If I’m going to give the government a big pile of money, I may as well earn some points for my trouble.

They charge a surcharge when you pay by card, don't they?

My state government certainly does

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#133

Post by Scaled »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #71
colechristensen wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is illegal for Merchants to charge credit card processing fees by law, This is only true in 4 states.

the typical Merchant bank agreements all have clauses forcing them to absorb these fees and explicitly barring them from separately charging customer CC fee. and most small/med businesses dont have clout to protest that, so they have to accept these terms in order to earn money

FYI there was a lawsuit about this a while back and part of the settlement was merchants can pass on fees now.

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#134

Post by Scaled »

wbl wrote: post #98
toomuchtodo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until it is in prod, it is a proof of concept. Blockchains solve for low trust; if you have trust, you don't need the efficiency loss of a decentralized ledger or blockchain. Central banks provide trust. As mentioned in one of my other comments, Pix in Brazil costs ~$10M/year. They process ~6-8 billion monthly transactions and roughly $6.7 trillion in payment volume a year [1]. That's roughly ~$0.0015/transaction bas…

And then we watch fraud soar. The 3% pays for a lot of bad transactions reversals and dispute management.

Common misconception - it's the merchant who pays for fraud and the 3% is pure bank profit. If there's a fraud transaction, the merchant has to pay the whole amount back and ends up negative the transaction fee and the chargeback fee. The banks just want you to think they're earning the 3% but actually it's pure profit.

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#135

Post by sam345 »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #62
switz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me if EU card transactions are capped, why Stripe charges me (US) the full ride on my EU customer's cards? In fact, I get charged even more for EU cards – perhaps as much as 2.5% extra. I just checked and I get charged ~8% in fees on a 10 euro transaction on Stripe. Of course some of that is the low transaction amount (flat 0.30), but it's brutal for a small business like myself. 2.9% + 1.5% (i…

perhaps they are capped only for EU merchants, because EU government works to protect their own companies and citizens from foreign artificial unregulated monopolies. in US, the government is more protective of private monopolies due to lobbying

How are you defining monopolies? Companies that are successful? Because you seem to be defining most US companies that do business in Europe as monopolies. It seems that this is the kind of mindset that has kept Europe behind. Too bad. Regulation that keeps out competition or needlessly puts obstacles in place is bad for the consumer, bad for employment, and bad for the general standard of living. And If you think US companies are unregulated then you haven't seen the 20 ft of federal CFR regulations together with the regulations of 50 different states that US companies have to deal with everyday.

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#136

Post by dmix »

lxgr wrote: post #89
actapp80 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't centralized payment systems like this reduce the overall resilience of the ecosystem and prevent future innovation? You hint on those lines with the possible future transformation of deposits into credit. Why doesn't the US private ecosystem manage to lower costs similarly? (Zelle comes to mind). It is interesting that this has happened in more highly regulated countries where the free market likely could not h…

> Why doesn't the US private ecosystem manage to lower costs similarly? Why would anybody willingly lower their own margin? > It is interesting that this has happened in more highly regulated countries It’s almost like regulation can sometimes achieve good outcomes in a not very competitive (due to network effects) market…

Regulations to do what exactly? Set price ceilings on markets with monopolies?

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#137

Post by bigfatkitten »

mahmoudimus wrote: post #130
bigfatkitten wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small beer anyway, it's not like people are paying taxes via card. I do. If I’m going to give the government a big pile of money, I may as well earn some points for my trouble.

They charge a surcharge when you pay by card, don't they?

They do, but with the redemption value I still end up ahead.

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#138

Post by nocorrect83 »

matt-p wrote: post #81
arjie wrote: post #6

Surprisingly small contract. It's interesting to see that a full government contract for a payment provider is a fraction of a US mid-size company's cloud bill. I am constantly surprised by things like this. Here's another: there are more foreigners in Taiwan (total pop. 25 m) than in China (total pop. 1.4 b).

Interchange average in the UK was about 0.2% last time I looked (which was a few years ago), it't not much anyway. Also the government doesn't really do card transactions. I imagine this is for fairly rare things like renewing your passport, booking a driving test or buying a title copy. Oh and visa fees maybe? Small beer anyway, it's not like people are paying taxes via card.

Interchange as a standalone might be low but scheme fees are about the same nowadays. Aydens provide a detail breakdown per transaction, for example on a UK consumer credit card there's sometimes 8 different line items (interchange, ayden markup, various scheme fees), one generally does not get out under 0.5% on interchange++ even in the UK on the most favourable cards. When you're on interchange pricing with either Stripe, Adyen or another big boy you're paying extra for AVS, 3DS, and several other scheme services. No one is walking away with 0.2% all in. A lot of people find these Visa and Mastercard published PDFs for interchange and think that's cheap, but reality is when the schemes got their nuts tightened on interchange fees they just spread the loss by marking up various scheme services and mandating them. John still want's his Avios points even in Europe/UK.

The gov.uk runs card transactions for dozens of services - which add up - from car tax, driver license renewal, passport replacements, to paying previous NI years (do you consider this tax?) and so on..

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#139

Post by sourcegrift »

notpushkin wrote: post #39
siren2026 wrote: post #13

I wish Adyen was as good at marketing and hype as Stripe was. Stripe is really good at making themselves look like a way bigger deal than they are.

There’s a huge difference for small business owners. Stripe has a Get started button. You click it, fill out a form, get your site approved in maybe a day, and start making money. Adyen has a Talk to our team button. You close the tab and never think about it again until you’re making serious money. --- Edit: that is, of course, by design. Adyen doesn’t want small businesses. From the sibling comment: > only able to…

Why don't they have a fax option so you absolutely never think about it again?

Re: Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen

#140

Post by ergocoder »

siren2026 wrote: post #13

I wish Adyen was as good at marketing and hype as Stripe was. Stripe is really good at making themselves look like a way bigger deal than they are.

Adyen isn't self-serve, so it's difficult for common people to be hyped with it.

More importantly, Adyen doesn't have a messiah-like founder. Patrick is like the second coming of Jesus.

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