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A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

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Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#131

Post by rootusrootus »

smithoc wrote: post #104
nostromo wrote: post #72

I think this is just the new normal. My car was stolen in Seattle and it was found with the person driving it when he was pulled over by police. In the car he had paperwork with his name on it, a weapon, and his work uniform in the trunk with a name badge (he was a security guard - lol) along with a neighborhood witness. Despite a mountain of evidence, the prosecutors declined to press charges because without direct…

This anecdote may be true, but is certainly not representative of current life in America. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... Millions in prison, massively disproportionate to the rest of the world. If jurors in Seattle have become skeptical of the claims that police and prosecutors make without evidence, the blame should fall squarely on decades of innocent people being se…

> Millions in prison, massively disproportionate to the rest of the world.

I recall a comparison that was done between incarceration in the US versus the UK, and the defining difference was length of sentences. The rates were otherwise similar, but the US justice system gives out sentences something like twice as long on average.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#132

Post by gdudeman »

goda90 wrote: post #57
Fogest wrote: post #33

I still feel so conflicted on things like the Flock cameras. On one hand I understand that they have the capability of incredibly enhancing the ability for police departments to solve more crimes. Especially things related to vehicle theft, they could likely track down your stolen vehicle very quickly especially if they have a wide network of cameras. However, my concern is always about the possibility for misuse. Ev…

What if instead of trying to figure out how to catch criminals, we focus on building a society where no one wants to be a criminal? Can we find solutions to what causes crime, like desperation, greed, fear, failure to understand and have compassion for other people, etc?

For anyone trying to figure out how to build a society where no one wants to be a criminal, I highly recommend When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment by Mark Kleiman.

There are evidence-backed ways of reducing criminality.

One counterintuitive way of reducing crime is to increase the likelihood of being caught, to have small-but-increasing consequences for committing crimes, and to increase the swiftness of sentencing.

For example, if you are caught drinking and driving, you immediately spend 1-2 days in jail.

Long sentences are not very productive at reducing crime or at least are a very inefficient way to do so.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#133

Post by rootusrootus »

hammock wrote: post #99
drnick1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you suggest we move to then, China?

The countryside. Near-zero public surveillance, near-zero violent crime, and conservative sheriffs and juries who work to keep it that way.

This is only true if you conform to social conservatism. Conservatives embrace authority and condone using it to enforce conformity. They only want less government when it comes to their own taxes & guns.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#134

Post by daveshistory »

georgeven wrote: post #109
nostromo wrote: post #72

I think this is just the new normal. My car was stolen in Seattle and it was found with the person driving it when he was pulled over by police. In the car he had paperwork with his name on it, a weapon, and his work uniform in the trunk with a name badge (he was a security guard - lol) along with a neighborhood witness. Despite a mountain of evidence, the prosecutors declined to press charges because without direct…

I wonder if you can sue him in civic court, could teach him a lesson.

The lesson would be that you spend a great deal of money upfront, go through a tremendous amount of stress, end up with a judgment against someone who doesn't have the money to pay it anyways?

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#135

Post by titzer »

Fogest wrote: post #119
titzer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article was about Seattle and the surrounding discussion has been US-centric. I recognize it's a global problem but I don't think it's the same everywhere. We shouldn't just throw up our hands like "oh well."

Yes, but you're arguing against a police agency utilizing a tool to enforce existing laws. Whether or not you agree with enforcing immigration laws is your opinion, but it is a law and that is not personally what my comment is concerned about or addressing. I am referring to misuse, this would not be misuse, it would instead be a law you disagree with enforcing. Which I feel is off-topic from my discussion as it is c…

It feels like you have not been paying attention at all. There isn't accountability when government stormtroopers shoot law-abiding citizens in the streets. (There hasn't even been an investigation). That's not me "disagreeing with certain laws"--the federal government is blatantly violating constitutional rights--and, incidentally the law. And here you're arguing the surveillance state is going to have "proper checks and balances" and just abide by said checks and balances. You're literally saying "oh they're just enforcing the existing laws" when the current US administration is the most lawless ever and refuses to hold itself accountable for anything. The breakdown in the rule of law is just staggering. They can take their cameras and shove them.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#136

Post by titzer »

bonoboTP wrote: post #108
emodendroket wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather doubt the point of all this stuff is that kind of crime.

Then which kind? If you mean political resistance, that's easier to surveil from phones and chat apps and gps, not cameras.

Why not all of them?

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#137

Post by Fogest »

titzer wrote: post #135
Fogest wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you're arguing against a police agency utilizing a tool to enforce existing laws. Whether or not you agree with enforcing immigration laws is your opinion, but it is a law and that is not personally what my comment is concerned about or addressing. I am referring to misuse, this would not be misuse, it would instead be a law you disagree with enforcing. Which I feel is off-topic from my discussion as it is c…

It feels like you have not been paying attention at all. There isn't accountability when government stormtroopers shoot law-abiding citizens in the streets. (There hasn't even been an investigation). That's not me "disagreeing with certain laws"--the federal government is blatantly violating constitutional rights--and, incidentally the law . And here you're arguing the surveillance state is going to have "proper chec…

Have a good day!

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#138

Post by ProllyInfamous »

victor9000 wrote: post #115
emodendroket wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather doubt the point of all this stuff is that kind of crime.

It was just a little baby GTA

My state recently passed a law (similar to Texas') which allows people to defend with lethal force certain property (beyond just their vehicle, which was already allowed).

Tennessee-wide, it goes into effect July 1st – and is long-overdue. I live in a working-class neighborhood and we do whatever we can to keep the trouble elsewhere (i.e. not here). Wish guns didn't exist, but until they don't stay safe thugz.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#139

Post by throwaway-blaze »

I don't like needless surveillance either but we have people (and kids!) getting shot all over the city, and juries and judges that won't do anything without video or photographic evidence of the crime. I am literally willing to trade some of my liberty for safety in this case. When crime is under control, let's discuss getting rid of them (which I know is farfetched).

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#140

Post by nilamo »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #48
superbyte wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Usually, I'd say this sort of comment is not really contributing much to the conversation, but in this case I agree with the sentiment. With a lot of these posts about the surveillance tech that's becoming increasingly prominent everywhere in the public, there are a lot of commenters here that seem to be of the opinion that "this is fine, as long as you have nothing to hide, there's nothing lost" - or worse in this c…

Full agree. It certainly feels like people are afraid of imagined threats, there just is no way there's so much rampant crime that people's living space is broken into so often, that surveiling everything all the time is a valid solution.

Like, I live in Detroit, and we don't have enough crime to justify it.

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