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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#131

Post by analog31 »

aliasxneo wrote: post #70

Seed oils tend to cause severe inflammation in my body like most other ultra-processed foods. This is more than conjecture, due to existing health conditions, I keep a very strict diet with a food journal. I was excluding them long before RFK Jr. came around with the MAHA stuff. Yet another thing thats been politicized I guess.

I keep reading about "inflammation" and think about things like swollen joints, bruises, etc. It must mean something else. What would I notice in my body if the oils that I consume are causing severe inflammation?

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#132

Post by bryanlarsen »

lithocarpus wrote: post #124
sinuhe69 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I don't know exactly how long people have been eating oil from olive, flax seed, sesame, coconut or palm nut, but I believe not under 6000–7000 years. But yeah, not the stuff we eat today.

Yes, I wasn't talking about unrefined olive, flax, sesame, or coconut. I don't think most people concerned about "seed oils" are concerned about those. It's the refined soybean oil, canola/rapeseed oil, cottonseed oil, grapeseed oil, sunflower seed oil, corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil - these are the modern refined oils I'm referring to that were never eaten until very recently. I'd be dubious of refined / ultra…

~10,000 years is also evolutionary recent. It's enough time for fast evolution to weed out stuff that is very directly maladaptive, but not enough time to weed out more subtle effects. And given that a bad diet tends to kill people well past their prime childbearing years, evolution might consider a bad diet a good thing.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#133

Post by hombre_fatal »

pessimizer wrote: post #52

> A 2020 Cochrane meta-analysis of roughly 59,000 participants across 15 randomized controlled trials found that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat reduced combined cardiovascular events by 21%. Cardiologists note that the risk reduction from this dietary substitution is comparable to the benefits of statin medications. We don’t make a habit of telling statin patients to stop their medication because of…

"Nutrition science is absolute garbage, [so I'll base my position on something worse.]"

So, emotions and preferences?

Btw, statins show a big difference if you take them early. Even more for people who have genetically low lipids. People tend to only go on statins in middle/old age, especially after an adverse event, after decades of accumulated plaque build up which statins can't reverse.

Rosuvastatin costs $5/mo and lowers LDL/ApoB 45% in a few weeks. You should probably get on one if your genetics prevent you from getting under 100 LDL and 60 ApoB despite a high fiber plant-based diet. But something tells me that's not your diet either.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#134

Post by stringfood »

perrygeo wrote: post #117
bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

wonder which is worse sugar or alcohol, 2 drinks a day vs 2 cans of coke a day

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#135

Post by anon84873628 »

colingauvin wrote: post #8

I'm not a MAGA or MAHA person. I just hate anecdotal pontificating about science. First of all, regarding the trans-fat discussion - in general, yes, keep trans fats low. However there are a couple important things to consider. One is that not all trans fats are created equal, and trans fats from animals are generally found to be less dangerous: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4301193/ >. We found no relatio…

If you think this article is annoyingly hand-wavy about science, wait until you see the dietary guidelines put out by this administration!

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#136

Post by morgengold »

Just kicking out seed oils replacing them with animal fat while still having a shitty diet is for sure of no help. But what I would like to know: how bad is having a lot of beef steak in the context of a mostly unprocessed food context? Like basically berries, nuts, eggs, vegetables, fruits + beef.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#137

Post by DoctorOetker »

fabian2k wrote: post #102
DoctorOetker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Modern medicine saves lives. Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. But you're suggesting that letting children die from preventable diseases is a bad thing. It's not.

> Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society.

It doesn't matter how authoritatively you state it, but wanting it not to matter is not the same as it not applying. It still applies modulo some distortion by "egalitarian healthcare". Every time you have a cold or whatever is a moment you are statistically less likely to reproduce. When a potential mate approaches you but sneezes all over itself, it has an influence on your attraction towards this mate. If only things were so simple as state them in a voice of authority...

Is it in the interest of the group, and of future children that they inherit deficiencies at higher rates simply because we apply healthcare?

What exactly is "civilized" about our healthcare behavior?

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#138

Post by [deleted] »

stringfood wrote: post #134
perrygeo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

wonder which is worse sugar or alcohol, 2 drinks a day vs 2 cans of coke a day

[deleted]

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#139

Post by lithocarpus »

anon84873628 wrote: post #127
lithocarpus wrote: post #110

> There’s a secondary argument about oxidation — seed oils go rancid at high heat, producing potentially harmful compounds. This idea is chemically real and worth being thoughtful about (don’t reuse frying oil repeatedly). But the evidence that oxidation at home-cooking levels causes measurable harm in humans isn’t there. Even if oxidation at home-cooking levels doesn't cause harm, which I suspect that it does though…

If that industrial prepared food switches to tallow I still have doubts about how much it is reused and what chemical changes it goes through...

Absolutely agree. I don't think I'd want industrially prepared stuff fried in tallow either.

There is a chemical distinction in that tallow is mostly saturated fat which doesn't oxidize nearly as easily, so it might be less bad to fry with or re-fry with. But still.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#140

Post by DoctorOetker »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #126
DoctorOetker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So what? Technology gives us free lunch after free lunch. And in the not so distant future we can just gene-edit our offspring, the ultimate free lunch.

[flagged]
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