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BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

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Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#131

Post by wpm »

9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #121

3D printing is still very much an enthusiast, techie driver market. The degree to which Bambu has done their best to alienate that market is beyond astonishing. I really like Bambu's machines. Their quality and prices are both excellent. But they no longer have an edge feature and speed wise. I can get pretty much the same product from Creality, so why would I even entertain a user-hostile company like Bambu?

Yeah Bambu's "moat" was mostly in the fact that spent a bit more time considering consumer usability, they spent a shitload of money on advertising (like, the common refrain "I didn't want a 3d printer hobby" is straight out of their YT sponsor spots) and hit the market with a CoreXY printer that naturally beat bed-slingers in reliability.

That does not a moat make. Everyone has caught up. Go buy a Prusa (I'm currently hovering over the buy button on a Core One L, I really don't have the space but...). Go buy a Qidi. Go buy a Snapmaker. Hell, even the Elegoo Centuri is an excellent printer for the price. They have tons of competition and offer little above them aside from questionable ethics and a bad attitude.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#132

Post by wpm »

bluescrn wrote: post #127
9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #121

3D printing is still very much an enthusiast, techie driver market. The degree to which Bambu has done their best to alienate that market is beyond astonishing. I really like Bambu's machines. Their quality and prices are both excellent. But they no longer have an edge feature and speed wise. I can get pretty much the same product from Creality, so why would I even entertain a user-hostile company like Bambu?

Do other budget brands really print as well as Bambu out of the box with no tinkering? Going from an old Prusa MK3s to a Bambu P1P+AMS was a huge upgrade. Mostly speed, reliable bed adhesion, and easy material swapping, it’s made printing as a hobby much more fun, and at this point I’m more interested in designing things to print than tinkering with the printer itself. I’ve followed the online drama, but so far, not…

Even Elegoo has a reliable CoreXY printer.

Going from a bedslinger to a CoreXY is why you felt the Bambu P1 was a big upgrade. Bambu didn't invent printers with those kinematics, they were just the first major ones on the market and marketed the hell out of it.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#133

Post by wpm »

Renaud wrote: post #24
dsign wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

> The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take.

Apparently until someone finds the things you make available to use and uses them to circumvent your own forced limitation on the product.

Sending cease and desists to developers using AGPL code has nothing to do with any mindset other than bold faced greed. While China has been the source of many ancient inventions, I doubt they invented greed.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#134

Post by hightrix »

filcuk wrote: post #125
hightrix wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I'm in the market for a new 3d printer and have been heavily considering a few Bambu models. All this drama, of which I'm not well informed on, is making me consider other vendors. Without these issues, I would have already bought a Bambu printer. Now, I'm investigating all competitors.

You'd do well to avoid them if you want to own your printer forever. I have 3 different Prusa printers, few of which have gone through several upgrades, and I love working with them (and not on them, as I'mnot the tinkering type).

Thanks for the feedback. Prusa is on the top of my list at the moment. That's exactly what I want, to use it and not to work on it.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#135

Post by bnjms »

bsimpson wrote: post #110
flaunf221 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not idiots, but not everyone at that company will actually understand the duties that come with these licenses. Copyright is not some kind of spiritual nonsense. It's law. You don't need to understand how, you just need to follow it. There can be legal questions on what exactly you can do, but those can arise for any kind of law. Of course you could also ignore copyright law - but that's the same with any…

The internet is largely predicated on American law, because so much of it has been invented by Americans. The EFF, Creative Commons, FSF - they're all based in America. The licenses they write are based on American legal concepts. It's interesting to see a Czech CEO commenting on (and quoting) and English translation of Chinese law in the context of a license written in America. As he points out in the thread, AGPL i…

I would have guessed as much. I don’t understand why the west allows Chinese firms to act on their contracts a law when interacting with their markets. There is no reason to allow Bamboo to continue selling in North America or Europe if they’re out of compliance here. Sales can be blocked until compliance with local laws.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#136

Post by mystraline »

Too bad the Software freedom conservency and FSF dont have harsh punitive measures they push. Else theyd demand a pound of CEO flesh, or push the US gov to ban all imports and sales.

Instead, its negotiation and laughable settlements.

As someone who does work with FLOSS, if I violated their copyright/patent, theyd extract pounfs of flesh from me. Tit for tat.

Im done with nice. I want blood from corporations who wrong us.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#137

Post by greatgib »

dsign wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

At a grand minimum, they can still your wifi password and intrude your network from the street any day they want.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#138

Post by fhn »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #38
Renaud wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

There are cultural differences in attitudes toward individual ownership of IP under communism. It is a recent change for China firms to bother getting international patents and trademarks. Naomi Wu made herself notable in media, and in China "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down". Unfortunate, as she seemed like a real entrepreneurial leader with skill. =3

only because China is at a point where they are producing technology and they don't want others stealing from them like they've been stealing for years

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#139

Post by jopsen »

How is there no enforcement paths?

If Josef really wants to go after BambuLab over AGPL violations he can do what the music/movie industries did: have them blocked at the ISP level.

Cease and desist for all servers outside China. Block traffic at ISP levels.

Unlike various pirate websites there won't be a hundred copy cats to also hunt down.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#140

Post by throw10920 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #111
le-mark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is something a lot of businesses simply have no control over in that country, or in the US for that matter. Can you expand on instances where the US government has installed overseers in large US companies? This sounds preposterous.

Some agencies literally had their own room 641A at telecom companies. People need to accept folks as they are, and not as we would like them to be. =3

"Some agencies" covertly installing equipment at, what, 3 companies (at most) out of the millions in the country is categorically different than overt and widespread installation of party members into high-ranking roles in hundreds/thousands of companies.

Claiming that these are remotely comparable is either pure ignorance or blatant propaganda. Any sane person can see that these aren't in the same universe of things.

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