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Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

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Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#131

Post by mmastrac »

cf100clunk wrote: post #98

Some numbers to consider: ~465,000 legally verified signatories to the federalist petition to declare Alberta permanently part of Canada ~360,000 status First Nations persons within Alberta ~330,000 legally unverified signatories to the separatist petition to hold a referendum to separate from Canada First Nations have successfully argued in court that as consultations with them are required by the Canadian Constitut…

It's clear it's a pandering to the provincial government base, and has zero legitimacy. This all stems from a boneheaded move to unify the right in Alberta to prevent another NDP leadership term - that term being something that actually did our province some good.

We've unfortunately been putting up with these leaders doing this sort of thing too long and let the rural part of this province dictate far too much.

FWIW, I even bought myself a membership to try and do at least a small part to prevent this a decade ago, but that was impossible. People have truely lost their minds here and it's bizarre to talk to people that were once rational.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#132

Post by cf100clunk »

mmastrac wrote: post #125

As an Albertan, I'm embarrassed that this is the image we project to the world, and sad that our punishment for collusion with foreign enemies isn't stronger or better enforced. One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas. He can stay there. If there was any legitimacy in this process, the petition that got 150% of the votes in less time would have been addressed first rather than this sham, likel…

> One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas

Which one is that?

One of the separatist leaders was found guilty of misappropriating more than 1.3 million CAD from his elderly aunt and uncle’s bank accounts:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dennis-modry-misappropriated-...

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#133

Post by mmastrac »

flossly wrote: post #130
mmastrac wrote: post #125

As an Albertan, I'm embarrassed that this is the image we project to the world, and sad that our punishment for collusion with foreign enemies isn't stronger or better enforced. One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas. He can stay there. If there was any legitimacy in this process, the petition that got 150% of the votes in less time would have been addressed first rather than this sham, likel…

As an outsider I like this idea of being able to vote yourself out. This is the ultimate test of a democracy, imho, that you can leave it democratically (by vote and not by force). We've seen some interesting cases of this, in Spain and in the Donbas of the last years. I think the outcome of people voting against it is a great outcome. You have the freedom. You paid for the vote (its expensive) and "they" did not win…

You realize that this is the perfect way for foreign influence to destabilize western society, right?

Democracy hasn't been hardened against social media and I'd prefer not to be another failed experiment like Brexit where we allow for foreign money to intentionally damage society.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#134

Post by mmastrac »

cf100clunk wrote: post #132
mmastrac wrote: post #125

As an Albertan, I'm embarrassed that this is the image we project to the world, and sad that our punishment for collusion with foreign enemies isn't stronger or better enforced. One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas. He can stay there. If there was any legitimacy in this process, the petition that got 150% of the votes in less time would have been addressed first rather than this sham, likel…

> One of the "separatist" leaders is hiding from the law in Texas Which one is that? One of the separatist leaders was found guilty of misappropriating more than 1.3 million CAD from his elderly aunt and uncle’s bank accounts: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dennis-modry-misappropriated-...

Apparently more than one are in hiding, TIL. Seems appropriate for the kind of folk that do this.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#135

Post by justaguyonline »

athrowaway3z wrote: post #18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXafC7tlqt0 TLDW: There are some Dutch guys hiring Americans to pretend to be Canadians to put out YouTube slop videos to make money via AdSense on the political-idiot-doomer niche on YouTube (and at least 1 is selling a "make quick money" guide to the scheme). Whether they're just a grifting pyramid or if there are other sources of income driving it is not made clear. Though they insi…

This is the phenomenon originally named "fake news" in the US during the 2016 elections. As in the comments that YouTube exposé you linked, despite what the evidence in the original investigations showed there were lots of accusations that this stuff was part of coordinated influence campaigns from outside countries. Threatened by this, Trump used the phrase against his criticism: labeling that the real fake news and any deeper discussion on it dropped from US politics.

The real issue is that these platforms have commoditized rumor in a way that gets around our cultural taboos about the practice.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#136

Post by cf100clunk »

jpadkins wrote: post #126
vkou wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% of Alberta is unceded First Nations land. It is not a valid country without it - without the consent of the relevant First Nations, a separated Alberta would be a few municipalities enveloped by... Canada. This is not a concern in Quebec, because the overwhelming majority of it is ceded land. If ducks had two wheels, they'd be bicycles, and if there was anything in common between the two provinces, you might have…

So because Quebec ancestors killed all the people who opposed the conquest of that land, it's okay for Quebec to secede? But because another set of Canadians didn't kill off all the natives that still claimed Alberta's land, they can't secede legally? Is that the logic?

Wow, I'm not sure where you're going with that. Read up on the ''Brandy Parlit'' debates and you'll see that genocide of indigenous people was never at play in early Quebec. The relationship between European colonists in New France/Lower Canada/Quebec and First Nations has always been frought, but not genocidal.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#137

Post by cf100clunk »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #40
briga wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Albertan/Western Canadian identity is totally a thing, and has been around for a lot longer than this latest round of separatist sentiment. The west has been griping about unfair treatment from the federal government for over a century now, so 1) this isn't primarily driven by foreign interference and 2) it's not coming out of nowhere. Whether it's a good idea is a different question. I doubt most Albertans want to b…

Alberta was created out of several divisions of the NWT barely over 100 years ago, formed by the federal government of Canada. It's not a thing. Hatred or criticism of Toronto and Ontario at large is a thing. But that's a thing everywhere. It's a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.

A huge amount of academic research into ''western alienation'' has been, and continues to be, researched at Canadian universities. The concept is bedrock to studies of Canadian history and political science.
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