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Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

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Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#131

Here we go again: as ever, intellectual property law creates a net loss to society.

Here we go again: as ever, intellectual property law creates a net loss to society. - marssaxman2

You should upvote my comment. I'm marssaxman2, which is 2 better than 1! I make better comments

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#132
post #111

If you're not guitar gear nerd, you might be unaware: Fender doesn't make the best version of its various guitar shapes (with one debatable exception)[1]. If you want an off-the-rack "S-Style" guitar (Stratocaster) there's a handful of premium, smaller brands that will make an objectively better guitar than any of Fender's offerings, including their premium "Ultra" series: Suhr, Anderson Guitarworks, James Tyler Guit…

I disagree completely with the idea that people only still think of Fender-style guitars as good because of boutique builders. Not that I disagree with the premise that boutique builders are making better guitars for better prices. But rich engineers and lawyers play boutique guitars - almost everyone else, including most professional musicians, still play Fenders (or one of the other big mainstream brands). Fender a…

> But rich engineers and lawyers play boutique guitars - almost everyone else, including most professional musicians, still play Fenders (or one of the other big mainstream brands).

I'm familiar with this stereotype but two things:

1) Based on the data I've seen, a higher percentage of a boutique brand's guitars are purchased by working musicians than the mainstream brands. They're such a small segment of the market however those musicians seem rare by comparison.

2) Hobbyists, across all income levels, are responsible for the vast majority of gear sold. The working musician is really just collecting the "discount" from economies of scale afforded by this phenomena.

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#133

Guitarist and a hobby luthier here. So to give some quick history, big traditional brands like Gibson and Fender entered a slump back in the mid 60s. The companies were bought out by Norlin and CBS at the height of the electric guitar popularity, and things took a turn for the worse when all the cost-cutting measures started becoming noticeable. Hence why 50s and 60s guitars from those brands cost a fortune today. Th…

Another reason that I don't think anyone's commented on is that it wasn't until the very late 1960's that the Stratocaster really took off. That was because of Jimi Hendrix adopting it. Before that, the Jazzmaster was Fender's top-of-the-line guitar; the Strat was an afterthought. After Hendrix died, players like Eric Clapton were inspired to make the Strat their #1 guitar. Because of all that, Fender didn't think they needed to license the body shape.

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#134
post #111

If you're not guitar gear nerd, you might be unaware: Fender doesn't make the best version of its various guitar shapes (with one debatable exception)[1]. If you want an off-the-rack "S-Style" guitar (Stratocaster) there's a handful of premium, smaller brands that will make an objectively better guitar than any of Fender's offerings, including their premium "Ultra" series: Suhr, Anderson Guitarworks, James Tyler Guit…

I disagree completely with the idea that people only still think of Fender-style guitars as good because of boutique builders. Not that I disagree with the premise that boutique builders are making better guitars for better prices. But rich engineers and lawyers play boutique guitars - almost everyone else, including most professional musicians, still play Fenders (or one of the other big mainstream brands). Fender a…

As far as I know it's mostly rich hobbyists or people purchasing for decoration that buy Fenders just because of name recognition. Almost everyone else gets guitars from small custom shops because they're cheaper, better built, and you're not stuck with a single bridge style and two choices of pickups. That's if they don't just buy off the rack stuff from ESP or Ibanez, who have absolutely devoured Fender's market share in the under $2,000 category. Which incidentally is the largest consumer base. The only thing Fender sells consistently is the Telecaster and the Jaguar, both of which people prefer off the shelf versions of rather than getting from the custom shop because you can't really mess with the design of either without drastically altering the sound.

If you want an example of when this kind of lawsuit backfires and causes reputational loss like you say, look at Gibson. A few years ago they sued Music Man, First Act, Jackson, Dean, and a few others over the "flying V" design that came out in 1958 and had already been genericized by the early '80s. They won on trademark grounds against Dean and the resulting fear over the other open lawsuits caused a few Flying V and Explorer lookalikes to go out of production. Since then anyone who remembers the ordeal has warned people away from ever purchasing their guitars. Gibson were in terrible but improving condition in 2024 having just left bankruptcy in 2019 and the fallout from the lawsuit being revived last year has massively hurt their sales and left them right on the track to death again.

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#135
post #133

Guitarist and a hobby luthier here. So to give some quick history, big traditional brands like Gibson and Fender entered a slump back in the mid 60s. The companies were bought out by Norlin and CBS at the height of the electric guitar popularity, and things took a turn for the worse when all the cost-cutting measures started becoming noticeable. Hence why 50s and 60s guitars from those brands cost a fortune today. Th…

Another reason that I don't think anyone's commented on is that it wasn't until the very late 1960's that the Stratocaster really took off. That was because of Jimi Hendrix adopting it. Before that, the Jazzmaster was Fender's top-of-the-line guitar; the Strat was an afterthought. After Hendrix died, players like Eric Clapton were inspired to make the Strat their #1 guitar. Because of all that, Fender didn't think th…

At least in Europe, The Shadows were HUGE in the late 50s and early 60s. Like Beatles levels huge. In many European countries Fender weren't sold / distributed until the early-to-mid 60s, so genuine Fenders were rare and expensive - often sold second-hand from someone who bought them in the US (merchant sailors for example). It is said that Hank Marvin was the first strat-player in Europe.

So back then the Stratocaster was synonymous with Hank Marvin, and many stores here even advertised Strats as "The Shadows guitars" as a marketing gimmick when they started selling them (I've searched through old news papers in looking for old Fender/Gibson advertisements).

Hank Marvin was also the leading reason for Fiesta Red being such a popular color here. Many stores selling distributing Fender offered the custom colors (Sunburst was the standard color) where they'd repaint your Strat in red.

Then Beatless came, along with the other big bands (Stones, etc.) and artists (Hendrix), which made guitar music very common and popular.

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#136
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body has literally 0 effect on the sound of an electric guitar. Only the pickups matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02tImce3AE

For those outside the guitar world, the above is one side of a debate that has raged for years and will never be resolved. Stating that POV as fact rather than opinion is disingenuous. Hundreds of famous artists are deeply attached to the sonic attributes of their favorite guitars. Are they wrong?

you didn't watch the video.

Re: Fender escalates legal campaign against S-style guitars

#137
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason that I don't think anyone's commented on is that it wasn't until the very late 1960's that the Stratocaster really took off. That was because of Jimi Hendrix adopting it. Before that, the Jazzmaster was Fender's top-of-the-line guitar; the Strat was an afterthought. After Hendrix died, players like Eric Clapton were inspired to make the Strat their #1 guitar. Because of all that, Fender didn't think th…

At least in Europe, The Shadows were HUGE in the late 50s and early 60s. Like Beatles levels huge. In many European countries Fender weren't sold / distributed until the early-to-mid 60s, so genuine Fenders were rare and expensive - often sold second-hand from someone who bought them in the US (merchant sailors for example). It is said that Hank Marvin was the first strat-player in Europe. So back then the Stratocast…

Yes, Hank Marvin was the first Stratocaster player in England as far as I know. Also, professional English players could sometimes get a coveted Fender guitar by buying secondhand in the US or swapping and trades with American musicians while on tour. That's how Jeff Beck got his Fender Esquire (he bought it from one of the Walker Brothers on tour) and I think it's also how Jimmy Page got his famous 1959 Les Paul (from Joe Walsh).
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