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Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

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Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#131
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing. Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding per…

I just visited duckduckgo.com again (though full of hesitation) and as a designer I can tell you: 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses (For Eg. Google, Bing have a very simple design). They don't design Search engines to be simple because they like it that way, because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work b…

> 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses

Enough people have already said it. I feel like a broken record but what's very complex about a text box and a logo?

> because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work best.

Interesting. Do you have any citations to back it up? I haven't heard of Google researching what colors work best for a search interface. Or bing for that matter.

> DO NOT over-use red.

The thing about design advice is everyone fancies himself Steve Jobs. Even if I started listening, I would never have a definitive, agreed-on opinion.

> Red is used to denote only important elements on a website (like a sign-up button), a call-to-action element (For example, compose button on Gmail)

Where is this definitive design rule book of yours? As long as you have sufficient contrast, that is enough to attract attention to important elements. Are you saying if I have a red background and a white compose button with black text, user will somehow see the background as call-to-action and not the button? Now don't go on how red background will not look very good. That's not the point. The point is color alone doesn't decide which section of the page is important.

> Look at DDG, they have a whole top-bar in full red.

Since they merge in serach box with the bar, that section is important.

> Now, I already know Google has a superior Search algorithm, period (from what I perceive).

This has been done n times. There is no clear pattern when it comes to choosing google vs bing results in a blind search result. As far as the end user is concerned, it's not possible to tell which one is algorithmically superior.

> Look at the irony, even you reference them by DDG and not DuckDuckGo,

What's the irony here?

> whereas you reference Google by just Google and not by any other short form. This is exactly what I meant. Brand Naming is something that we don't even pay attention to, but plays a much much important role.

Oh my. How much it has hurt Microsoft. They should have just called themselves MS and be done with it. I can't fathom how much of a hit y-combinator and hacker news are taking because their names can be abbreviated.

/s

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#132
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing. Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding per…

I just visited duckduckgo.com again (though full of hesitation) and as a designer I can tell you: 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses (For Eg. Google, Bing have a very simple design). They don't design Search engines to be simple because they like it that way, because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work b…

I'm confused about your "design is very complex" bit. I just used their search engine and their design couldn't be more straight forward.

In fact I prefer it to Bing's look in particular. Less clutter.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#133

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

> Does anyone care about DDG anyway?

The number of votes and comments tell me people on this forum do care. Personally, I care because DDG is doing something ambitious and competition is good(it helps keep people in line). Also, even if I didn't care, I don't see a reason why I should shit on someone's hard work.

> They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem,

Privacy isn't an imaginary problem.

> and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars.

Creating one from scratch will take time and money, and no, as blekko folks pointed out, it didn't take them billions. But DDG uses bing apis augmented with custom index.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#134
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first times I used Google, there was no default search engine, hence a far more open situation.

Switching search engines is ridiculously easy. There aren't many things related to tech so easy; no sign up, no user names or passwords necessary, no network effects required, no need to share your FB or Twitter account. Just go, type, and search. Firefox managed to severely dent IE in a similar default situation, despite needing to be downloaded and installed, which is a huge effort wall compared to using a search e…

Well Chrome is the most popular browser and I have no idea how I would change my default search engine in it.

This is important because I almost never search by going to google.com and typing a search term. The location bar does this automatically using google.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#135
post #131
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just visited duckduckgo.com again (though full of hesitation) and as a designer I can tell you: 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses (For Eg. Google, Bing have a very simple design). They don't design Search engines to be simple because they like it that way, because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work b…

> 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses Enough people have already said it. I feel like a broken record but what's very complex about a text box and a logo? > because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work best. Interesting. Do you have any citations to back it up? I haven't heard of Google researching what co…

But Microsoft by itself is not a "consumer" brand. Bing is, XBox is, Windows is, Live is, Office is, Microsoft is only the name of the corporation behind those products and people don't use it in daily conversations. "Hey Dad, I want a Microsoft XBox so I can play games with my friends on Microsoft Online Services" -- said no kids ever

Y-Combinator/HackerNews is even less a consumer brand. Of course, that's only a problem if you are trying to appeal to the mass market, YC/HackerNews isn't, but DuckDuckGo is.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching search engines is ridiculously easy. There aren't many things related to tech so easy; no sign up, no user names or passwords necessary, no network effects required, no need to share your FB or Twitter account. Just go, type, and search. Firefox managed to severely dent IE in a similar default situation, despite needing to be downloaded and installed, which is a huge effort wall compared to using a search e…

Well Chrome is the most popular browser and I have no idea how I would change my default search engine in it. This is important because I almost never search by going to google.com and typing a search term. The location bar does this automatically using google.

the easiest way is to right click on the location bar, but, I hope unsurprisingly, you'll find the setting for the default search engine in Settings, under "Search".

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#137
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Their design is very complex and un-appealing with no simplicity that a SE should posses Enough people have already said it. I feel like a broken record but what's very complex about a text box and a logo? > because they have invested a huge amount of money in researching about which colors and patterns work best. Interesting. Do you have any citations to back it up? I haven't heard of Google researching what co…

But Microsoft by itself is not a "consumer" brand. Bing is, XBox is, Windows is, Live is, Office is, Microsoft is only the name of the corporation behind those products and people don't use it in daily conversations. "Hey Dad, I want a Microsoft XBox so I can play games with my friends on Microsoft Online Services" -- said no kids ever Y-Combinator/HackerNews is even less a consumer brand. Of course, that's only a pr…

So are you seriously saying brands which can be abbreviated aren't adapted as well by consumers as brands which can't be? And do you have anything other than "I said so" to back it up?

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, the HN reader, are not the target of this. Of course it ticks you (and me) off the wrong way - but your reaction is likely an unintended consequence! It's excellent PR because it creates a coherent David Vs Goliath narrative that journos will buy and so will the bulk of the non-technical populace. A few more variations of this in different publications, and you'll see that it might seep into the public conscious…

Me, the HN reader, is who DDG markets to. They try to sell themselves as the search engine for the informed user - the people who care about privacy and understand how google tracks you. The "bulk of the non-technical populace" will see an article about search engines and skip over it. They will never in their lifetime change any setting on their computer away from the default.

Good point - till now DDG was marketing at us.

Could this be where they're trying to move towards a more mainstream market?

They did take VC funding, and they may need to show growth in the mainstream market to their investors.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#139
post #46
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone ever seen DuckDuckBot hit their site? I don't have any web property large to appear via DuckDuckBot, but maybe someone else does? Im fairly certain it crawls Quora, as via this tweet https://twitter.com/yegg/status/33693491838066688

It's not just you. Maybe he only crawls the Alexa top 10k or some similar minimal set.

I checked my logs and there are several fetches from 72.94.249.37 and 72.94.249.38, over a number of domains that I host. None are particularly popular as far as the greater internet is concerned; one is a semi private site that I set up for my daughter's photos, another is one that has not yet been developed, apart from a few words of text and an image.

Interestingly, the fetches do not have a user-agent that identifies itself as the DDG crawler:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

I'm assuming this is the crawler because it does not fetch anything besides text/html.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#140

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Why is your comment the #1 comment? I mean, I count 3, count them, 3 unsubstantiated claims: 1. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? I think it's safe to say, yes, there are some who do. I for one. 2. The problem DDG is solving is imaginary. Oh really? What precisely is that problem? Is it search itself that you're referring to, or the prospect of going up against Google? If the former, then you are delusional, and if…

The privacy problem is imaginary because (a) only a puny fraction of users care, and (b) thanks to the "patriot" act, our ISPs are storing our search history anyway.

I have worked on search (see my background), and doing search well is massively difficult. The problem has deep necessary complexity, and Google has invested thousands of PhD years against that already. If Google were incompetent, maybe I could see it. But they're damned smart and their product is extremely good.

Data is also a problem - Microsoft has been collecting all your google searches since IE8, and can probably just clone Google's search results for the top few million queries. But even given that, Bing is a massive undertaking.

Since nobody uses DDG, Google can't be expected to make them a default search choice in Chrome. Accusing Google of some malfeasance is just childish and silly.

Finally, the name DDG is atrocious. Really bad in more ways than I have time to list.

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