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Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

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Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#131

Post by ebbi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128
ebbi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody argued "there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist." You literally said "These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks." The Israeli government isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' AIPAC isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' Jewish National Fund isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' > I haven't seen this. But I also haven't seen anyone a…

> The Israeli government isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' AIPAC isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' Jewish National Fund isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' Sure. These are coherent organisations. Talking about them is meaningful. Talking about "Zionists" is nonsense. > what does it take for a peoples to establish their own 'Jewish nation-state' on a bit of land that had people living there…

You're living up to your handle quite well, 'JumpCrisscross'ing from the point here - Zionism is an ideology, and it drives the actions of those individuals and groups that align to that ideology.

You can try and intellectually criss cross all you want, but the reality is always there: Zionism is a supremacist ideology that used violence to achieve its aims.

> Lots of options!

See, you couldn't even be intellectually honest and state the option Zionists did use!

It's not me being trope-y, it's just you trying to deflect and defend this horrid ideology.

> stroking the egos of folks who turned this into their pet discussion topic

I'm sorry that talking about, and advocating for, people that are being massacred today is a 'pet discussion topic'.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#132

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ebbi wrote: post #131
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Israeli government isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' AIPAC isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' Jewish National Fund isn't a 'loose collection of aligned folks' Sure. These are coherent organisations. Talking about them is meaningful. Talking about "Zionists" is nonsense. > what does it take for a peoples to establish their own 'Jewish nation-state' on a bit of land that had people living there…

You're living up to your handle quite well, 'JumpCrisscross'ing from the point here - Zionism is an ideology, and it drives the actions of those individuals and groups that align to that ideology. You can try and intellectually criss cross all you want, but the reality is always there: Zionism is a supremacist ideology that used violence to achieve its aims. > Lots of options! See, you couldn't even be intellectually…

> you couldn't even be intellectually honest and state the option Zionists did use!

Again, we can meaningfully talk about the choices Ben-Gurion, Israel and Netanyahu make. Broadening that to “Zionists” is sloganeering, not advocacy or discussion.

> talking about, and advocating for

Going off on a rant isn’t advocating for anything. It isn’t useless. But rallying a base needs an end to be productive. Otherwise it’s self serving.

My pet war is Ukraine. The folks who go off on rants about all Russians being monsters through and through absolutely undermine the cause of the people they purport to help. (I’ve done it. It’s emotionally satisfying when you’re angry and it feels like nobody cares.)

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#133

Post by traverseda »

GetTheFacts wrote: post #110
traverseda wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both. Free speech does not cover scams and fraud, something that happens on their platform. Society doesn't take any action against them for publishing illegal content, scams, libel, fraud, because they aren't a newspaper. They're more like a newspaper printing house. In my opinion they should probably…

>You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both. Hi. You seem to be confused or uninformed. Check out this link[0]. IT should help. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/23/hello-youve-been-referre...

>You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. *I don't think* you should have both.

Personal opinion, not legal opinion.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#134

Post by GetTheFacts »

traverseda wrote: post #133
GetTheFacts wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both. Hi. You seem to be confused or uninformed. Check out this link[0]. IT should help. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/23/hello-youve-been-referre...

>You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. *I don't think* you should have both. Personal opinion, not legal opinion.

>>You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both.

>Personal opinion, not legal opinion.

Fair enough. But not very charitable (or helpful/useful to freedom of speech) to anyone who doesn't have billions in cash on hand to fight the hundreds/thousands of lawsuits anyone who doesn't like what the thoughts of others that you (or I) choose to host on our platforms, whether they be web sites, mailing lists or video comment sections.

Section 230 protects the little guy much more than it does Meta, Alphabet, Musk, etc. As they have the deep pockets to fight those lawsuits. Do you? I don't.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#135

Post by thrance »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113
ebbi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Just a yes or no will be fine.

> Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Muslim Brotherhood is a coherent organisation, so we can meaningfully talk about its beliefs. Asking whether "Zionists" are fascist is as incohrent as asking if Antifa "believes" in anything. These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks. Fundamentally, nothing about Zionism strikes me as requiring fascism or religious supremacy (though…

The Zionist project is one of settler-colonialism, that seeks to displace/eliminate the Palestinian population from its land to establish a Jewish ethno-state in its place. Sounds pretty fascist and supremacist to me.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#136

Post by mindslight »

dangus wrote: post #86
ptdcc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think your comment, perhaps unintentionally, downplays the seriousness of the January 6th coup attempt. America has since decided to essentially forget about January 6th but there was a brief period of time where pretty much everyone figured Trump was toast. Impeached, removed, and probably set to be put on trial for serious crimes against the USA. I know the guy has a knack for escaping consequences but it came re…

I was with you for the first part, but corpos have gotten to the scale where they wield power much closer to governments than individuals. In fact I'd say this is precisely why so many large corpos, traditionally thought of as desiring stability, continue to back societal arsonist Trump - they're trying to destroy as much of the United States Government as they can, so they can step into the power vacuum and exert even more governmental power.

The real problem is the Constitutional framing of our rights in a negative manner that does not lend itself to judgements based on equitable weighing of parties' interests. The comment you're responding to tries to lay out refinements to our legal implementation of freedom of speech that at least tries to mitigate some of these problems. Fixing these problems (ie neutering the governmental power of corpos) would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#137

Post by no-name-here »

8note wrote: post #96
traverseda wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be protected by safe harbour provisions, or you can editorialise your content. I don't think you should have both. Free speech does not cover scams and fraud, something that happens on their platform. Society doesn't take any action against them for publishing illegal content, scams, libel, fraud, because they aren't a newspaper. They're more like a newspaper printing house. In my opinion they should probably…

i disagree, this just leaves the door open for whatever your preferred manipulation style is. Moderation was added with a purpose just take away safe harbour as a whole. we dont need to subsidize the existence of Facebook and AWS and ISPs.

Without safe harbor, would Hacker News have to be shuttered?

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#138

Post by [deleted] »

mindslight wrote: post #136
dangus wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment, perhaps unintentionally, downplays the seriousness of the January 6th coup attempt. America has since decided to essentially forget about January 6th but there was a brief period of time where pretty much everyone figured Trump was toast. Impeached, removed, and probably set to be put on trial for serious crimes against the USA. I know the guy has a knack for escaping consequences but it came re…

I was with you for the first part, but corpos have gotten to the scale where they wield power much closer to governments than individuals. In fact I'd say this is precisely why so many large corpos, traditionally thought of as desiring stability, continue to back societal arsonist Trump - they're trying to destroy as much of the United States Government as they can, so they can step into the power vacuum and exert ev…

[deleted]

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#139

Post by philipallstar »

8note wrote: post #97
philipallstar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is enormous because it's useful. It's mostly useful now because of network effects. If it has no other use, Bluesky proves you can start a social media company in the time of Meta and have it be successful, given its slanty take on politics.

facebook of course, has the money to be responsible for its users comments and posts

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. How on earth do you think Meta has money? Scale. If you descale it, it has no money to pay people to review everything.

And that's the less troubling issue. The more troubling one is you would be crazy enough to entrust Meta with the task of inspecting everyone's messages on the planet. That's some planet scale, ruinous communism.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#140

Post by montroser »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #111
montroser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a constitutional right to post on Facebook. When you invest your life into platforms run by for profit corporations, you agree to play by their rules. Merging state and big tech is not going to help.

> You don't have a constitutional right to post on Facebook Which is why OP describes the U.S. enacting legislation creating a statutory right.

You are correct. But it's a ridiculous suggestion. Can you imagine the local corner store with a bulletin board, and some patron tacks up a picture of a swastika, and the owner of the store is not allowed to take it down?
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