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Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

fortune.com

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Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#131

Post by ceejayoz »

twoodfin wrote: post #129
ceejayoz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks. Federal ban on tax breaks for companies over a certain market cap? Why can't they compete on "we have a good regulatory setup" or "we have good schools for your employees" or "we are a nice place to live"? Why compete on "we'll soak or own taxpayers more than the next state over so you can make even mor…

How would that not require a Constitutional amendment?

Oh no, legislators might have to do some work?

We apply interstate commerce extremely broadly to all sorts of things (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich; six marijuana plants in a basement for personal consumption = interstate commerce!). Why not here?

> The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown cannabis for medical purposes affects the interstate market of cannabis and the federal government may thus regulate and prohibit such consumption.

I contend that cushy state/local tax breaks for datacenters affects the interstate market of datacenters and the federal government may thus regulate and prohibit such consumption.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#132

Post by ianm218 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #28
ianm218 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you see data centers as "energy parasites"? They are basically the best customers of the grid possible - consistent high usage. This is an opportunity for the US to pursue energy abundance and grow the economy. The only issues these cause is when states make it impossible to deploy more energy. Anti growth environmentalism is so toxic when we could just be pursuing wide spread clean energy and growth.

> Why do you see data centers as "energy parasites"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48123090 > They are basically the best customers of the grid possible - consistent high usage. The grid exists to serve the populace. It's why we tend to call it a "public utility".

That linked fortune article talks about how the Sierra Club is leading the charge on trying to stop those data centers. You know the same group that has opposes nuclear energy [1], largely opposes hydro power, opposes housing being built in California. We could have data centers, nuclear, and cheap housing if we threw out these negative sum thinkers from the common discourse. Anti growth is bad for everyone.

[1]. https://www.sierraclub.org/nuclear-free

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#133

Post by twoodfin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #131
twoodfin wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that not require a Constitutional amendment?

Oh no, legislators might have to do some work ? We apply interstate commerce extremely broadly to all sorts of things (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich ; six marijuana plants in a basement for personal consumption = interstate commerce!). Why not here? > The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown cannabis for medical purposes affects the interstate market of cannabis and…

State and local tax law is not “interstate commerce”, it’s state and local tax law.

The SCOTUS ruling overturning Federal intrusion into state tax law would be 9-0.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#134

Post by arjie »

Interesting. I think the county isn't getting much in value in return for the datacenter, though the numbers stated in the headline can easily confuse a headline-reader. The $3.3b in tax breaks is on the $30+b of GPU purchases for that location which would normally encounter sales tax and so on. The coverage for that tax break is a state law, it seems[0]:

> The company is expected to take advantage of a new Louisiana incentive program, established by Act 730, that offers qualifying projects a state and local sales and use tax rebate on the purchase or lease of data center equipment. Meta is also expected to participate in the state’s Quality Jobs program.

So it is entirely normal that the county officials wouldn't know or really get a say, and the county is the one that's missing out on sales tax. The Louisiana governor isn't hiding the fact that they're going to give them tax breaks, though. It's right in their announcement.

0: https://gov.louisiana.gov/news/4697

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#135

Post by pesus »

selimthegrim wrote: post #105
adamredwoods wrote: post #38

From https://sherwood.news/tech/hyperion/ >> Per the report, the package of tax breaks and incentives was achieved through local officials bound by nondisclosure agreements, quietly struck legislative deals, and parliamentary sleight of hand to avoid public scrutiny of the deal. >> So the residents of Richland Parish did not have much of a heads-up on what was coming. No voting, no public interests, only closed-door…

There was a public hearing of the state public service commission I attended which essentially boiled down to well all these big Wall Street banks are guaranteeing payment so it should be fine and plus we need jobs up there.

I wonder if they actually believed it would bring more than a handful of permanent jobs or whether they're just saying to get their bribe.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#136

Post by gibspaulding »

arjie wrote: post #134

Interesting. I think the county isn't getting much in value in return for the datacenter, though the numbers stated in the headline can easily confuse a headline-reader. The $3.3b in tax breaks is on the $30+b of GPU purchases for that location which would normally encounter sales tax and so on. The coverage for that tax break is a state law, it seems[0]: > The company is expected to take advantage of a new Louisiana…

Thank you for that context.

I’m probably going to get down voted for this, but that doesn't sound like a bad deal. They’re giving up tax dollars that the region wouldn’t have received anyway without the project in exchange for a big (admittedly temporary) economic stimulus while the data center is built.

I live in a relatively small rust belt town that’s seen several data center projects recently, and while they have slightly increased the cost of electricity, they’re also employing a ton of people at well above market wages, plus bringing in out of town labor who are spending their checks at local businesses and paying taxes on those checks locally.

Make hay while the sun shines.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#137

Post by triceratops »

newfriend wrote: post #76
ceejayoz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm assuming Facebook still needs the datacenter, and that the company that wasted $80B on the Metaverse can pay some taxes.

There are 50 states in the US and plenty of other locations to build datacenters. "Still needing the datacenter" isn't a reason to build it in this specific location. It's ok to just admit you were wrong.

I hear unionization is great for collective bargaining. Maybe the states should form a union...

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#138

Post by triceratops »

ceejayoz wrote: post #25
cj wrote: post #9

No one likes to see big companies avoid taxes. But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks. Edit: I suppose if you ban tax breaks, if a state wants to be competitive, they still can but through modifying the tax code for everyone instead of giving certain people exceptions. That doesn't seem like a terrible alternative..

> But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks. Federal ban on tax breaks for companies over a certain market cap? Why can't they compete on "we have a good regulatory setup" or "we have good schools for your employees" or "we are a nice place to live"? Why compete on "we'll soak or own taxpayers more than the next state over so you can make even mor…

Or make state tax breaks taxable federal income. No need to interfere in any state law whatsoever.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#139

Post by ceejayoz »

twoodfin wrote: post #133
ceejayoz wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, legislators might have to do some work ? We apply interstate commerce extremely broadly to all sorts of things (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich ; six marijuana plants in a basement for personal consumption = interstate commerce!). Why not here? > The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown cannabis for medical purposes affects the interstate market of cannabis and…

State and local tax law is not “interstate commerce”, it’s state and local tax law. The SCOTUS ruling overturning Federal intrusion into state tax law would be 9-0.

> State and local tax law is not “interstate commerce”, it’s state and local tax law.

And yet, growing six marijuana plants for personal use in California (never leaving the house!) was "interstate commerce". Read the link!

If that's interstate commerce, a California company building facilities in Louisiana seems like a slam dunk.

Re: Meta to receive $3.3B in tax breaks for its $10B Louisiana data center

#140

Post by ceejayoz »

ianm218 wrote: post #132
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you see data centers as "energy parasites"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48123090 > They are basically the best customers of the grid possible - consistent high usage. The grid exists to serve the populace. It's why we tend to call it a "public utility".

That linked fortune article talks about how the Sierra Club is leading the charge on trying to stop those data centers. You know the same group that has opposes nuclear energy [1], largely opposes hydro power, opposes housing being built in California. We could have data centers, nuclear, and cheap housing if we threw out these negative sum thinkers from the common discourse. Anti growth is bad for everyone. [1]. htt…

Oooh, the big scary powerful Sierra Club!

What's their market cap, again?

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