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New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

reuters.com

131–139 of 139 posts

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, that's the main reason there's been a push for that for decades. It's a giant pile of poor people's money that rich people can't easily skim from, and they'd really, really like to. Once it's "in the market" they gain all kinds of options for turning some of that money into their money, some immediately, some with tweaks to laws or policy.

That’s literally not how it works. You buy a share of stock and participate in their gains. For example, I owned a bunch of Tesla stock since around 2017. Now I have a ton in the stock as well as a new house and a model s plaid thanks to their greatness. Did the same with Apple, that is my retirement and travel fund. it ain’t hard.

Yeah sure, cool story bro.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#132
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is pretty shady. The S&P 500 in particular has fairly strict criteria (e.g. 4 consecutive quarters of profitability) and those criteria exist for a reason. They made me more comfortable buying the S&P 500 knowing I'm not buying pre-revenue companies. This is a bad precedent to set just to please Elon.

I'm a bit out of the loop, but has SpaceX not been profitable for the last 4 quarters? I understand they're investing a lot into R&D for Starship but I was under the impression they've been making a killing on Starlink.

We don't know. There is reporting that they have positive EBITDA, but that's not the same as profitable. Basically it would completely ignore launch costs.

They also aren't just the rocket and satellite company any more, but include Twitter and xAI, both of which would contribute heavy losses.

Guess we'll find out soon enough!

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it doesn't cover you getting disabled so you can't work anymore at the age of 30 after working 8 years. 1600% higher return is great when you work from yours 20s to your 50s/60s and can essentially self insure yourself at that point with it, but as the person you are responding to you is (I believe) trying to say, that's not everyone.

Fair, but given that we're talking about a hypothetical government program, "index-based retirement fund" doesn't imply you're the only one contributing to said fund.

in the country I'm now in somewhere around 18% of my salary is basically put into my "pension" (basically equivalent to a 401k). around 6% from my salary, around 6% match from employer and around 6% for severance (that one gets when they leave said employer, but can stay in pension, and most reccomend it stay there unless you really need it to make ends meet as otherwise pulling out 1/3 of your pension contributions).

This is external to disability insurance that we and our employers also have to contribute to. So I'd agree to a large extent that the govt forcing employees and employers to contribute significant amounts to 401k like programs could be in the interest of everyone in the USA but one needs a disability insurance program on the side as well and that isn't particularly cheap.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#134
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trope has to die. SpaceX Starship design is optimized for Mars (instead of Blue Origin NG) and the gigantic Starship Factory and multiple launch pads under construction in Texas, Florida and Louisiana (plus potentially foreign countries) only make sense with Mars.

Or the attempt to Kessler Syndrome and Neuromancer it up as fast as possible by trying to send up 1m satellites. https://spacenews.com/spacex-files-plans-for-million-satelli...

I don't think these will be in Earth orbit. I think they will be in Sol's orbit.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s literally not how it works. You buy a share of stock and participate in their gains. For example, I owned a bunch of Tesla stock since around 2017. Now I have a ton in the stock as well as a new house and a model s plaid thanks to their greatness. Did the same with Apple, that is my retirement and travel fund. it ain’t hard.

> You buy a share of stock and participate in their gains That is "literally not how it works", as you missed "... and losses". Since dividends aren't really a thing any more and gains are ~100% from stock prices increasing, existing holders of securities would really like a bunch more money to come shopping and drive that price up. Very helpful if you want to make sure a period where "... and losses" seems like a si…

Your theory vs my reality bro

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s literally not how it works. You buy a share of stock and participate in their gains. For example, I owned a bunch of Tesla stock since around 2017. Now I have a ton in the stock as well as a new house and a model s plaid thanks to their greatness. Did the same with Apple, that is my retirement and travel fund. it ain’t hard.

Yeah sure, cool story bro.

Keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll keep getting what you got. I’m living large bro. Good luck to you.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that SSI is an insurance (or lifetime annuity) not an investment? SSI covers disability, and supplements income no matter what happens. Disability? You're covered. Live to 105? You're covered. Market dips 50% in a period you have a lot of expenses? Your benefits are unaffected. Tax advantaged 401k is already the vehicle of choice for retirement funds.

> Are you aware that SSI is an insurance Insurance is an effective tool for managing unlikely risks -- few people will be rendered unable to work early in life, so with a large pool we can cover these cases with only a small per-person contribution. What makes SSI ineffective is that it is also liable for a broad eventuality: most everyone will age. When any self-interested person plans for a far-off expense, they wi…

I like this comment because it seems well thought outA couple of points:

> When any self-interested person plans for a far-off expense, they will save up principle, and manage it to yield interest as well.

The reason the current system came about is that people were unable or unwilling to save. Half the money that goes into SS comes from your employer, a hidden benefit to most. You think you're gonna get that money in returned wages? Do you think that people are MORE likely to save today than they were in the early 30's? My parents outlived their nest egg. Even SS isn't completely keeping up. How many people dying on the streets are you willing to tolerate. This isn't theory, this isn't being dramatic, this is what is starting to happen today with medical expenses. It's largely hidden, but it happens NOW. We need more social insurance, not less.

> ..instead of investing or growing funds on behalf of the people, the congress and administrators spent down the SSI nest egg leaving no principle to manage. Today it makes payments only as money comes in.

It is not strictly the case that SS doesn't invest, even today. It just chooses low risk investments. Copy pasta - (Social Security does not invest in private stocks or bonds because it operates on a pay-as-you-go system designed for security, not high returns, and is restricted by law to investing only in special-issue U.S. Treasury bonds. The system acts as insurance against poverty, requiring a guaranteed, non-volatile asset base to pay promised benefits.The combined Social Security trust funds have approximately $2.56 trillion invested entirely in special-issue U.S. Treasury securities. )

Fundamentally, if you have a problem with the way the government manages the money, fix the management, don't blow up the system. We've been blowing up the system for decades, doesn't seem to be helping at all.

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#138
post #21

> Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars This trope needs to die. SpaceX has no plans to go to Mars. Elon meanwhile regularly says forward looking stuff to attempt to justify the lofty valuations of his companies. Let's just say there is a ... mixed track record on these proclamations (Full self driving, Hyperloop anyone?)

FSD is awesome on hw4!

Re: New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

#139
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon and his company was sued when he delivered on one of his previous compensation tied to moonshot never gonna happen things.

What does that refer to?

The saga of Musk's 2018 Tesla pay package.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/19/musk-tesla-pay-delaware-supr...

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