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The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

theatlantic.com

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Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#131

Post by padjo »

ryanackley wrote: post #67
garciasn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always amazed that when I tell people I intend to retire in my 50s, they tell me that I can’t possibly mean that and actively wonder how I could possibly fill my time. It’s as if we could not possibly function as humans without meaningless shifting of tangible/intangibles from one place to another. Society is so hellbent on the idea that we need our job to be our identity, they lack the imagination for another ot…

Sure working sucks, but have you tried not working? I think this is from lived experience because I've gone for stretches of not working (intentionally). It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. I know it seems counter-intuitive but if you do succeed in your dream of retiring in your 50's I think you'll understand what I mean when you get there.

I have tried not working and it's great.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#132

Post by Taikonerd »

6510 wrote: post #111
Henchman21 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

I haven't decided which word I like best to describe it but if the citizens are not on the same team or if there isn't a team anymore everything goes to shit. Collective/community/unity etc

Maybe "social capital"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#133

Post by bluecheese452 »

aspenmartin wrote: post #127
bluecheese452 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Life was almost certainly better before the internet.

Ok so you’re the most powerful person in your country in 1995, what’s your strategy? “I’m going to fight as hard as possible to legislate away the infra buildout and internet companies” and tank your country’s economy while other countries eat your lunch?

You originally asked if there was any technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life. Now you are arguing that is inevitable. Which may be true but it is a different argument.

That being said I am not convinced a society who decided not to allow the internet would have been worse off.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#134

Post by munksbeer »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #124
aspenmartin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is: you can say the exact same thing for any other major technological revolution. Would you have preferred we stopped making the internet because some people didn’t fare well in the transition? The genie is out of the bottle so what do people want to happen here?

Yes? Life was almost certainly better before the internet.

For who?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#135

Post by aspenmartin »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #133
aspenmartin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so you’re the most powerful person in your country in 1995, what’s your strategy? “I’m going to fight as hard as possible to legislate away the infra buildout and internet companies” and tank your country’s economy while other countries eat your lunch?

You originally asked if there was any technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life. Now you are arguing that is inevitable. Which may be true but it is a different argument. That being said I am not convinced a society who decided not to allow the internet would have been worse off.

That’s a fair point to the first part, but if you look at the numbers it’s also just not true. Poverty went from 38% to 10%, scientific progress was enormous (imagine doing a lit review in 1980). Internet destroyed old media yet aggregate employment didn’t collapse. Developing economies got access to global markets. Yea I mean ok I’m glued to my phone now, that’s bad, but to your point and to make a second argument (which I sort of blended into my original comment): this is inevitable. It’s inefficient not to have done the internet. The idea of “if had somehow avoided connecting their society to the internet they would have been just fine” is just not logical: they would be completely disconnected from the entire world economy and their economy would be incredibly inefficient and stagnant. You would have rioting in the streets. Do you think life in Iran without the internet is better?

Similarly for AI: yea there will be serious downsides not least of which you doing this will be surveillance and centralized state power and suffering for people ill positioned to navigate the transition. It would be more damaging to not let AI develop fully and to engage in the global competition that the US is strategically winning at this point (though China will probably figure out how to get around their compute starvation in the next ~5 or so years).

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#136

Post by aspenmartin »

jmcqk6 wrote: post #63
aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

> There will be suffering during transition and there will be many that don’t fare well Yeah, and the people suffering are not going to like that. If people are afraid of being in that group, then they will not be very happy about it. If you put yourself in the shoes of someone suffering from AI, how comforting do you think your observations here are?

Not comforting at all, in fact I would find it aggravating. Yet to imply that means this is somehow a cold and callous take is what I take an issue with because it ignores the vast majority on the other side of the fence, and the economic windfall and quality of life improvement for the majority. The last thing you want to be is like Europe or any other country that is regulating their way out of the loop. You think there will be suffering if AI continues to roll out? imagine if we stop. You want Xi to chuckle at your naïveté and build out enough power to leverage the entire global economy to bend to its will?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#137

Post by [deleted] »

cjs_ac wrote: post #22

> Already, as many as a quarter of Americans seem accepting of violence as a tool for achieving political change. I'm surprised it's only a quarter: violence as a tool for achieving political change is the entire point of the right to bear arms. EDIT: I'm not arguing for or against political violence, just noting an apparent inconsistency between Americans' views and one of the documents that they talk about as thoug…

[deleted]

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#138

Post by archagon »

general1465 wrote: post #99
hamdingers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully automated luxury space fascism doesn't really need buyers. A risk of high automation/post-scarcity is that abundance exists but remains under the control of people who are not interested in justice or equality or freedom. Lots of people feel that describes the leadership of most AI tech companies. If they don't need your labor, and they don't need you as a customer, and they don't care about you as a person...…

But that also assume that peasants do not have agency and won't trigger another French Revolution.

They won’t say it in public, but I imagine they’re betting on swarms of automated slaughterbots protecting them when things truly go to shit.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#139

Post by aspenmartin »

bediger4000 wrote: post #77
aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

We treat it as uniquely damaging, because it's touted as uniquely enhancing, or even uniquely revolutionary. "AI is not just any tool" is often the response to some asking to exercise choice in the tools they use. "You don't have to use AI in your work, but if you don't, you'll work for someone who does".

Unique it is in terms of the technology and the particular scent of this revolution, but I don’t see how it’s unique in the broader sense of “this is yet another major technological/economic paradigm shift”

> You don't have to use AI in your work, but if you don't, you'll work for someone who does

I think there may be some cases where this is not true but it is definitely true the majority of the time. It’s like someone today being like “I just don’t use email” (I have worked for this person). It slowly but surely becomes more and more ridiculous and impactful for the company you work for not to adapt.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#140

Post by Henchman21 »

palmotea wrote: post #126
Henchman21 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Careful with that Fair point -- none of us want to be in the situation where all our current institutions have failed and there's nothing to replace them. That is chaos and anarchy and a true mess. Even the most hardened ideologues put in that environment would want a more orderly society. "Order" is another word to be careful of. > I think the reality is human institutions require work to function, and if the comm…

> Our "elites" have set about breaking up our unity, fracturing us into smaller groups that can be managed. The "fashion" is definitely to denigrate anything and everything that would build unity. Judge the other. Accuse the foreigner. Demonize those who look different. Yes, but I think your more specific examples are more liberal-coded, and leave a false impression. Liberals aren't immune. I'd say the biggest exampl…

> Yes, but I think your more specific examples are more liberal-coded

Struggling with this statement. Liberal vs Conservative is a false dichotomy and precisely the sort of divide we could do without. Frankly I don’t know what “liberal coded” even really is supposed to convey. Perhaps you mean to say my implicit bias skews towards liberals? You’ve made no mention of conservatives, who are also unsalvageably deep into that. Trying to discuss anything regarding these two specific groups is a HUGE DISTRACTION and plays into the divide. How would you phrase it differently?

> Can you be more specific about who's been woken up?

Oh yes, since 2020 and Covid I think there is a chunk of the populace that had implicit faith in our institutions. Covid showed that faith was misplaced. My impression is that more and more people are just done with all this and are patiently waiting for the next thing. I sort of doubt that makes sense — it feels a bit woowoo to me tbh. But as it happens I also think most of those people were “liberals” and what we’re seeing now from that group is mostly cognitive dissonance.

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