Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent • Hacker News Board

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#131

Post by hirvi74 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:53 PM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #52

timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

It is interesting because while the hotline might help some, it can also do significant damage to others depending on what happens after the phone call. Of course, nothing in life is every 100% good for everyone or every situation.

While not everyone that calls the hotline is involuntarily committed, I wonder how the data matches up with this finding [1]:

> "In this meta-analysis of 100 studies of 183 patient samples, the postdischarge suicide rate was approximately 100 times the global suicide rate during the first 3 months after discharge and patients admitted with suicidal thoughts or behaviors had rates near 200 times the global rate. Even many years after discharge, previous psychiatric inpatients have suicide rates that are approximately 30 times higher than typical global rates."

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5710249/

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#132

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:55 PM UTC

hilariously wrote: post #114

ceejayoz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several loved ones in the same situation, including two who've wound up in hospital in this way. I'm glad they did. Fun? No. But better than dying.

I get it, I am not advocating to live unmedicated or anything, but pretty much every emergency medical experience I have had any contact with in the USA has been so universally painful and dehumanizing that it gives me extreme pause, I would not willingly engage with it.

I'm fine with someone making that call for themselves with personal experience, although doing it in a sound state of mind can be challenging in crisis.

I'd just caution you that it's not a universal experience. As with, say, COVID masking, some people found it abhorrent, and others still voluntarily mask today; some found lockdowns almost fun, others despised even the thought of staying home for a few days.

Statistically, police/committment intervention from calling the hotline is rare, and another commenter linked evidence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48122550) of significant benefits to balance it.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#133

Post by sailfast » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:56 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #121

sailfast wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Ca…

"sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?" There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social m…

Disconnection, lack of community / opportunity / hope and social media are all major societal issues that (in my opinion) are not going to be solved by any sort of single government or charity. Making progress on that takes shifting norms / moving the overton window on depression and addiction, and overriding a lot of human nature (we like easy, we like saccharine, etc).

Definitely open to whatever concrete ideas you have that would fix those things, especially if they don't require a nation's whole GDP.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#134

Post by KennyBlanken » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:57 PM UTC

yladiz wrote: post #127

timcobb wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the hell is capitalist about it? The rest, everything else. It's darkly amusing to me we don't get healthcare here in the US but we do get suicide hotlines. EDIT: wouldn't be surprised if Trump defunded/privatized suicide hotlines using companies run by the Trump Org.

> The rest, everything else. What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

Why are you continuing to argue with someone who from their second response or third response in the thead - is at best disingenuous?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#135

Post by sailfast » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:59 PM UTC

chaosharmonic wrote: post #116

timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

I saw a LinkedIn thread just the other day that called it the "suicide prevention industrial complex," and that phrase will stick in my head like "orphan crushing machine" or "leopards eating faces"

What on earth is the "industrial complex" part about this? Outside of pharma pushing pills I'm not sure what other profit-seeking, recursive elements exist in the "suicide prevention industry".

Legitimately curious about this - not sure how these words would apply.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#136

Post by BobaFloutist » Wed, May 13, 2026, 3:59 PM UTC

piyuv wrote: post #122

gtowey wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point we have to get used to the idea that there are no such thing as free services. If you're not paying for something that clearly has a cost to the entity providing it, then value will be extracted from you in other ways.

Do you realize this thread is about a suicide preventation website? Can’t you separate between public services and profit-based ones?

I think the best-faith assumption was they were taking about the use of Google analytics. For the suicide prevention website, the value is the benefit to society of you not killing yourself.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#137

Post by tosti » Wed, May 13, 2026, 4:00 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #39

timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

They follow a flowchart. Most of it involves trying to figure out if you know any friends or family nearby. I guess finding someone for comfort might make sense, but the flowchart is too obvious and makes it sound like another typical marketing callcenter.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#138

Post by timcobb » Wed, May 13, 2026, 4:00 PM UTC

some_random wrote: post #128

mden wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing. It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.

Most people don't believe in incremental progress anymore, either it works 100% of the time and solves everything forever or it's a failure and you probably wanted it to fail because you're evil.

No I believe that what you have with the 11 percent decrease is reflective of diversity among people and what causes crisis. Suicide hotlines work for some people in some cases, that is undeniable. But it's not incremental in that you're not going to then iterate on the hotline and make it more effective and one day we've got 20% and so on. That won't be the case because the hotline is just not appealing for many people. It's good for the people it's good for, but that doesn't mean it's not a civilizational CYA/"not my problem".

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#139

Post by wat10000 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 4:03 PM UTC

timcobb wrote: post #83

throw0101c wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide di…

An 11% drop isn't "something works for somebody," it's "it works for a lot of people, substantially more people than it harms, making for a clear net gain."

In individual with odd habits is a completely different thing. That comparison is utterly inapt.

If you had an entire population that started running the AC at 60 degrees and eating ice cubes all day, and cognition measurably increased by 11%, that would be incredible news.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#140

Post by zero_k » Wed, May 13, 2026, 4:03 PM UTC

Data Protection Authority (DPA) should investigate. In Germany, the company's DPO (Data Protection Officer) has personal, criminal liability. For these cases, I'd like to see them in front of criminal court, and see what happens. I wanna see someone having a criminal record for this, and then all the stupid excuses of large companies about "I didn't know" and "I thought lalalala" will stop rather quickly. It will turn out that, at the end of the day, it was just a resource issue. And when criminal liability is on the table, resources magically... appear.

It's time to be serious about this. Unacceptable.