Live data from Hacker News

As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

nautil.us

131–140 of 157 posts

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#131
post #62

I prefer the full quote by Douglas Adams. I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented…

Folks! This is a quip from a novelist! Take it with a grain of salt. It has to be punchy, not accurate.

For some reason I think most people on here are familiar with Douglas Adams.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#132

It seems obvious to me that younger people are more predisposed towards building their reputation (and taking some serious risk to do so) and older people are more predisposed towards maintaining what they've built. This feels like a pretty standard evolutionary psychology approach. It's not as if no one can disrupt in their older years, but in general people get more cautious as they get older. They're less interest…

I am not disagreeing, but is a possible additional factor that younger, more naive, people just don't have what is and isn't "possible" so deeply ingrained in their minds? The disruptive part of the startup ecosystem kinda runs on that, right?

>> but is a possible additional factor that younger, more naive, people just don't have what is and isn't "possible" so deeply ingrained in their minds?

I would agree with this. Every high school valedictorian and college president always say the same thing in their commencement speeches: "Go out and change the world! The future is now, YOU ARE THE FUTURE!!"

And then you go dropped into the real world all bright eyed and bushy tailed. Within a few years, you either find your path, or realize corporate America is a total meat grinder and you become a soulless, scarred, hardened person. Or you somehow are able to navigate a lane for a career and realize where you can be happy without rocking the boat.

Now in my late 40's, I'm of the same mind. Stick to your lane, take your paycheck and find happiness and fulfillment outside of my 9-5.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#133
post #114

My parent hunch is that most researchers choose to marry and have kids, and that significantly reduces his, and maybe, just maybe, that changes in hormone also makes him/her less aggressive and ambitious -- in all perspectives. I'd really love to see some researches on scientists who NEVER marry/have kids against people who married and have kids.

There are possibilities that involves less biological determinism: the older, the more work done in collaboration. Or: researchers stay with their original subject, which often (remember: we're talking averages here) gradually becomes more main stream.

We can control for the same age. But anyway it is going to be difficult to design the tests. My personal experience says, unless you really like kids, you are going to suffer a lot -- yes you are also going to have some fun, but you are definitely going to suffer a lot.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#134
post #91
post #53

> Even the greatest minds, such as Einstein, transitioned from disruptor to gatekeeper when quantum mechanics threatened his nostalgic view of the universe Just watch Veritasium[1] take on this claim. Eistein claimed that QM in Copenhagen interpretation is non-local. Bohr claimed he proved Einstein wrong. And then came Bell and ruled out local hidden variables, proving the QM is non-local, at least in Copenhagen inte…

Did Einstein ever say that QM is non local, and therefore it is wrong? The discussions around this topic seem to imply this, but I don't know if this happened. Also, AFAIK what Einstein really didn't like, was the idea that, at a fundamentals level, our reality isn't deterministic. This is at odds with our everyday experience, but it seems to have been confirmed by experiments. So maybe focusing on what their thought…

I added the link to Veritasium. They discuss what Einstein said, his exact words. They even show books where his words were printed. Though in German ofc.

Veritasium tries to uncover all the story of the myth of old demented Einstein who was unable to accept QM. And it seems to be a very unfair myth. They say "the history is written by victors" (in this case by Bohr), and I tend to agree.

> Did Einstein ever say that QM is non local, and therefore it is wrong?

Well, kinda, but not exactly. He said that Copenhagen interpretation of QM is non-local. Not QM itself, Veritasium cites some Einstein's letter to Bohr where Einstein explicitly accepts the math of QM, because it works, but opposes "spooky action at distance". Should we interpret it as Einstein claimed that QM is wrong? I'm not entirely sure, he hoped that if they fixed that non-locality thing of QM, they will be able to bridge QM and GR. (Probably, his previous experience of fixing non-locality of Newton's gravity led to this prediction.)

You see, Einstein had one wrong presumption. He thought that if QM non-local then it would lead to contradictions. But it turned out that it doesn't lead to contradictions: a measurement and a wave-function collapse lead to non-local consequences, but they cannot be used to transfer information. So no contradictions. Despite this wrong presumption, I didn't hear Einstein saying QM is wrong, he was pretty careful about what he said, and you'll probably can't catch him on a single wrong claim. He pointed to non-locality and said "it smells". He proposed hidden variables as an alternative removing the smell. It is all. None of these claims were wrong.

I believe he was seeking some thought experiment that can show contradictions, but he failed. But he had found experiments that can show non-locality without any doubt.

> maybe focusing on what their thoughts about locality were could be missing the forest for the tree.

I don't think so. It fits perfectly. Einstein spent ~10 years fighting gravity, mostly due to the reason of non-locality of Newton's gravity. Non-local gravity couldn't work with relativity, it leads to contradictions. Einstein fought non-locality for 10 years, and it fits perfectly that he noticed non-locality in quantum-mechanics instantly, when others didn't (it was even not because Einstein was a genius, he was just primed to non-locality and highly sensitive to it). It fits perfectly that Einstein was very concerned by it and sought ways around it.

For example he proposed hidden variables as a way around it. Just think about it: his hidden variables didn't try to make quantum mechanics into a deterministic theory, values of hidden variables meant to be non-deterministic. Eistein tried to make QM local, by fixing hidden variables way before "wave-function collapse".

At the same time your claim that Einstein was against non-deterministic nature of QM, doesn't fit facts, AND it fits perfectly with people not really understanding what Einstein think is wrong with QM. Bohr had written an obscurantist's answer to EPR paper, in which he claimed that he won the dispute, but I'm not sure there was at least one person who really understood how. This smog of war naturally leads to people hypothesizing and coalescing to some easily understandable hypothesis. And hypotheses of Einstein's aversion to non-determinism is an easily understandable hypothesis.

So my (probabilistic) judgement is: the story told by Veritasium is highly probable. It relies on some sample set of facts. The sample can be non-representative, but the whole story fits in a way that I don't believe anyone can fit artificially, even if they tried really hard.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#138
post #43
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re usually outside their field of expertise, though. It’s like being a billionaire; you stop getting “no, that’s stupid” feedback and it rots your brain.

This happens in lots of different fields. I feel like people need to start developing pseudonyms when they achieve success, so that they still get feedback. Either that, or they have to carefully cultivate a group of no people to hang around and tell them which ideas are stupid.

Stephen King tried this (as Richard Bachman), but he was found out after just 4 books. His last novel as Bachman sold 10x as many copies after the connection was made known.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the (somehow sadly) added value that the TV broadcast algorithm is kinda known by everyone (morning programs, prime time etc), and that if there wasn't nothing interesting to watch, we would just do something else.

yeah shared “did you this weeks X” is lame, but it was social glue for a long time.

I think about this all the time.

The trend towards personalization in media and software comes at the cost of a loss of a shared social experience we can use to relate to each other.

Re: As researchers age, they produce less disruptive work

#140

Given that (at least to my understanding) forced retirement at a given age is illegal in the US, could we maybe put a duration on tenure to try and increase the number of "up and coming" people in research?

Academia already underpays highly skilled people. Worsening long-term prospects for people in the area would just make more bright people quit sciences and go right into finance or other bullshit careers that pay more but are near zero-sum or net negative for humanity at large.
Post reply on HN