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Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

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Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#131

Post by StromFLIX »

DANmode wrote: post #83
anonymousiam wrote: post #28

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will. Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they'r…

> further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. Batteries are cheaper every week. Time to build kWh Victory gardens.

In Germany its getting insane right now. A lot of the time energy at noon is negative. https://blog.stromflix.com/price-of-power

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#132

Post by georgemcbay »

robotbikes wrote: post #92
anonymousiam wrote: post #28

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will. Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they'r…

A lot of these rules happen at the regulatory level so lawmakers don't typically understand them in depth and get a lot of their explanations from utility lobbyists or the regulatory agency itself, if they even get involved or pay attention. The dramatic increases being directly linked to data centers is big enough for consumers to notice though. That's why these independent counsels are pretty important such as the…

> lawmakers don't typically understand them in depth and get a lot of their explanations from utility lobbyists or the regulatory agency itself, if they even get involved or pay attention.

I think you are being far too charitable here and in most cases it is weaponized ignorance at best.

Why dig into the minutia of the actual rules when you can just have the people donating money to you while benefiting from you not really fixing anything just tell you what you should do...?

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#133

Post by leonidasrup »

developerDan wrote: post #130
leonidasrup wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obscene it's economics - supply and demand. In power grid dominated by solar production the value of MWh of electricity is highest at night (because the supply from solar is zero), the value MWh of electricity is lowest at noon (because the supply from solar is maximal). So the residential grid-tied PV system is supplying power when the value of electricity is low and consuming power when the value of electr…

Yes it’s economics, but that doesn’t exempt it from being “obscene” if that is how one sees it.

One could also argue that negative electricity prices at noon are "obscene".

It doesn't make economic sense to push for more solar in a grid dominated by solar without additional investments into electricity storage and these investments have to be paid by someone.

Rollout of digital smart meters for households makes sense, so that people can make use of cheap electricity at noon. Large customers of electricity already now buy electricity either on electricity market at variable raters or have specific long-term contracts with electricity suppliers.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#134

Post by close04 »

harry19023 wrote: post #84
moistoreos wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes. California. Where large swathes of costal areas hover between 60ºF and 80ºF. We are talking about Nevada the weather of locality matters and where it can be supremely hot.

You posted the Texas grid, I posted the California grid. Here's the NW grid which includes Nevada. Same thing, demand peaks around 6PM when people get home and turn on their houses. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/expanded-view/el...

In France there are 2 peaks in a working day, one around 12:00-13:00, and one around 19:00. On weekends there's a third peak around 22:00-23:00.

https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/elec...

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#135

Post by Ekaros »

typon wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why local governments are so against datacenters? It seems like a golden opportunity to build electric infrastructure that's paid for by corporations and if AI is a bubble at least that infrastructure will remain and continue to provide cheap power.

Existing power infra is likely fine enough for current demands. And building new infra doesn't necessarily mean it will be any cheaper to operate or use. So with datacentres providing rather little local economic activity after being build and potential impact on electricity costs say during night overall they are not that beneficial.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#136

Post by AntiUSAbah »

anonymousiam wrote: post #28

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will. Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they'r…

They are killing themselves with this ignorance.

The pressure onto normal citizens will push and increase renewable energy build out (E-Car, Balcony solar/roof solar), to get away from these companies faster. Their utility will increase further, the pressure increases even more.

But people like Elon Musk are also very ignorant: He populates going into space to fix the energy topic, but apparently can't do math because it would be a lot cheaper to use batteries and solar and potentially also sell the heat the DCs produce instead of doing any of it in space.

It would even be easier to just buy something in new mexico, building out the energy infrastructure in a non livable area because latency doesn't matter that much with AI (not all use cases, but for that you have edge locations).

The richest and smartest people (excluding here elon musk) are not able to do a fast proper buildout? ... They could even just build a whole town with DCs and combine this with other energy intensive industries and sharing the prorcess heat reuse.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#137

Post by JuniperMesos »

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #71
JuniperMesos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not nec…

The super riches are already winning so many times. The US is missing regulations, and at the same time over-regulate areas that it should not.

I don't think this is particularly due to the super-rich, over everyone else in society. A lot of the bad regulations I care most about are driven by ordinary people who own their own home and not a whole lot else, and are sincerely-supported by many people I know personally.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#138

Post by JuniperMesos »

StromFLIX wrote: post #131
DANmode wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. Batteries are cheaper every week. Time to build kWh Victory gardens.

In Germany its getting insane right now. A lot of the time energy at noon is negative. https://blog.stromflix.com/price-of-power

A price signal that noon is a great time to do AI inference. Unfortunately, people often want AI inference done at other times than noon, when electricity isn't negatively-priced because of abundant solar panels making it in broad sunshine.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#139

Post by eowln »

anonymousiam wrote: post #28

It seems that big money can overrule local government regulators at will. Here in Nevada, (Warran Buffet owned) NV Energy already has approval for a "Demand Charge" that will increase rates for everyone, and further reduce the ridiculously low amount of money that consumers get for selling their excess solar power back to the grid. The regulators didn't even resist, but there has now been so much backlash that they'r…

[flagged]

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#140

Post by iso1631 »

typon wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why local governments are so against datacenters? It seems like a golden opportunity to build electric infrastructure that's paid for by corporations and if AI is a bubble at least that infrastructure will remain and continue to provide cheap power.

If your town users a peak of say 100MW and is powered by two 50MW feeds

Then a new DC creates another 300MW of demand and builds 300MW more feeds

Then the DC goes bust, you're left with 350MW of potential supply and 50MW of demand

Compare with a highway, you had a 2 lane road, and it was fine, with 1000 cars an hour, then someone expanded it to 8 lanes and filled them with another 3000 cars an hour.

Then they vanished, and you're left with an 8 lane road for 1000 cars an hour, paying 4 times the maintenance for extra unneeded capacity.

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