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Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

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Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#131

Post by simonw »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #79

Wow, looks like I'm the only person who actually likes this and disagree with several of the points from the article. First of all, you have problems finding your apps since they tool away your start menu? Get a simple, free app launcher like launchy or executor. Problem solved. I'm running an older Intel 1.8 processor with 4GB RAM on a 32 bit system. I've had several Adobe apps open at the same time without any issu…

"First of all, you have problems finding your apps since they tool away your start menu? Get a simple, free app launcher like launchy or executor. Problem solved."

Again, that's not how usability works. You shouldn't expect regular human beings to hunt out and install third party software to help them launch applications!

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#132

Post by f4stjack »

Wow... I feel like I am in a minority who enjoyed windows 8. As for the article I disagree with it on many points. I am using this beast for several months (adding the beta releases to the queue) and although I was very sceptic and using the same words with Mr. Nielsen as in the UI is schizophrenic and tries to be two things in one shell BUT you know what? If you are not interested, you don't even see Metro (or whatever its post copyright lawsuit codename is). It doesn't get between your legs, it wasn't always so; my memory did record some awful experiences with CP and RC releases of Windows 8. But the release version is... good, surprisingly. I expect windows 9 will streamline it even more.

I agree that opening two browsers in desktop mode and in tablet mode can be a hassle towards users' memories but hey my workflow makes me using two different browsers in two virtual desktops so I was happy to have this feature without loading a virtual desktop app for windows.

"Lack of multiple windows" um... what? I am running a netbeans, firefox and several consoles running tweaker script programs in ruby at the moment. Of course if he meant the Metro interface, I can't see why do you expect multiple windows on a tablet interface.

And from there I felt like the article goes irrelevant and subjective. I had no problems with flat icons, and to be frank I found the news app the best of the bunch. It does not oversaturate you with the content and is blazing fast. As for live tiles, how can third party developers' choice can be accounted as a failure on Windows 8's usability? I mean if his criticisms were about the Microsoft Apps I would have accepted it but it's saying like "oh iPhone apps icons are too colorful. Shame on you Apple!"

All in all there is a weird tendency of bashing windows 8 in the press. And it doesn't deserve it. It's good, and is trying to change the desktop paradigm whether you like it or not - It is admirable, they are trying to create an original thing but this very originality is hindering them on reviews.

This is my cuppa anyway.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#133

Post by rlu »

simonw wrote: post #123
rlu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! I'll repeat that even though I think we all know this already: if you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to use Metro apps. It is really that simple. So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense, then click on the "Desktop" tile and you're done. Sure, you have…

"And then for a lot of the other complaints (e.g. hidden interface, icons that you don't think you can click) it is just a matter of time before people learn it. Then it will become a non-issue." That's not how usability works.

Is pinch to zoom obvious? Is left clicking obvious? Is ctrl alt delete obvious? Is spacebar to pause/resume video/music obvious?

I'm no UEX expert but all of the above seem to be things that many people know how to do, yet would not seem immediately obvious at first.

I am quite confident that "swiping in from the right to reveal charms/commands/options" will join the ranks of the above. It'll just take a few months of mass use. It's a pretty convenient gesture IMO.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#134

Post by contextfree »

itry wrote: post #118

"Windows no longer supports multiple windows" Only in Metro-Mode, right? Its hard to imagine to have a Desktop OS that does not support multiple windows. Did Microsoft say anything about the future of the Metro/Desktop duality? And Metro Apps do not work on the Desktop and visa versa? So you would have to decide if you buy a "windowed" version of Photoshop or a fullscreen version?

There's not really a Metro Mode and a desktop mode, there's only one mode. You get one main app taking up most/all of the screen + optionally one companion app on the side. The desktop acts like an app and can be in either of these positions (hence why it's not really a separate mode) and within the desktop, you can run as many (desktop) apps and windows as you like and have the taskbar etc etc just as before, with the exception that the start menu has been replaced with the start screen, where you can pin, launch and switch to both the new kind of apps, the desktop as a whole, and individual desktop apps (which switch to the desktop and launch/switch to the app).

You're correct that desktop apps and the new kind of apps are separate (with the exception of web browsers which have a bizarre way they can run in both environments).

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#135

Post by suresk »

rlu wrote: post #130
suresk wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I'd argue that the major benefit of app stores are: - Discoverability - Easy payment processing/distribution - Automatic updates - Being able to easily re-download it later - Consistent purchase, install, update experience - Some confidence on the part of the end user that what they are downloading works on their system and isn't going to harm their computer The simple listings for non-metro apps really onl…

Yeah I agree. Though I don't think that them pushing the app store as being metro first is equal to them shunning the desktop. Perhaps that is simply something we'll agree to disagree on? It's very important for them to have the metro environment flourish and for that they're going to need lots of metro apps and blah blah blah. Metro IS important. It just isn't replacing the desktop any time soon.

To be clear - I don't think Microsoft is shunning or trying to destroy (at least in the short term) the non-metro desktop. I just think they are going to be pushing metro (or whatever it is called now) pretty hard, and if you don't like metro-style apps, they are going to be harder and harder to avoid as time goes by.

I just think that app stores are going to be more and more important to the ecosystems they exist in. For the reasons I mentioned above, I think more and more software is going to be procured via app stores (although, in big businesses it will probably be fairly small), and that is going to influence what developers build.

I probably wouldn't have built and sold a Mac app if there weren't an app store, and as I look at porting it to Windows, trying to replicate the infrastructure that I get for free with an app store isn't very appealing for the amount of money I'd likely make, so my choices are: make a metro-style app so I can use the Windows app store or not make the app at all.

> Perhaps that is simply something we'll agree to disagree on?

Fair enough :)

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#136

Post by gurkendoktor »

potatolicious wrote: post #42
NZ_Matt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android and IOS both use exactly the same solution for their multitasking.

And a good idea it is, except the quality of first-party apps isn't up to making that transition. I cannot speak for Android, not being a regular user, but I have never, ever seen a first-party on iOS get its own UI stuck. It may crash rarely, but it will never get itself into a state where the user is powerless to do anything with it (short of killing it). Most iOS users I've met aren't aware of the kill-app functio…

> Most iOS users I've met aren't aware of the kill-app functionality

Have they ever used the Facebook client before the ObjC rewrite? My girlfriend had to learn both force-killing and pull-to-refresh because of all the bugs (on an iPad if that makes a difference).

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#137

Post by cpeterso »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #95
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of Mountain Lion do you consider "a complete mess"? LaunchPad is a joke, but other than that I find Mountain Lion to be very intuitive and easy on the eyes.

1) If you use Mission Control, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. If you open the Notification Center, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. But if you change desktop spaces, there's only black - where's the linen (i.e. what happened to that permament physical textured backdrop Apple apparently decided was the bedrock of the UI?) 2) Not to mention that gross effect when you change d…

I think Snow Leopard was OS X's last good upgrade. Lion and Mountain Lion mostly add new apps and UI doodads I don't use and introduce app compatibility problems. And I still don't forgive Apple for killing "Save As" in favor of "Duplicate" and "Export".

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#138

Post by fauigerzigerk »

rlu wrote: post #87
potatolicious wrote: post #12

Have been using a Surface as well as a Win8 desktop for a couple of weeks now, and I have to say this is pretty accurate. When WinPhone first came out with the Metro UI I was a fan - there's a visual simplicity to it that's very appealing. After you use it for a while though the weaknesses become pretty glaring and hard to accept. It is often very hard to tell what UI elements are interactive and what are purely info…

What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! I'll repeat that even though I think we all know this already: if you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to use Metro apps. It is really that simple. So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense, then click on the "Desktop" tile and you're done. Sure, you have…

The "you can stay away from X" argument never really works. If something exists, it will sneak up on you one way or another, especially if it's the cool new thing. How long do you think until an app or OS feature you need isn't available on the old desktop?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#139

Post by gurkendoktor »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #95
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of Mountain Lion do you consider "a complete mess"? LaunchPad is a joke, but other than that I find Mountain Lion to be very intuitive and easy on the eyes.

1) If you use Mission Control, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. If you open the Notification Center, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. But if you change desktop spaces, there's only black - where's the linen (i.e. what happened to that permament physical textured backdrop Apple apparently decided was the bedrock of the UI?) 2) Not to mention that gross effect when you change d…

I agree with much of your posting, but...

> When I see people with their sleek Macbook Airs on their laps, then I look at their screens, and I see stacks and stacks of scattered windows of all shapes and sizing clustered over the desktop

> All of this stuff was fine when computers were big slow things that sat on desks, running a handful of low-res apps at a time, driven by a mouse and keyboard

I think this is exactly the wrong way around. This behaviour was never fine on a desktop with a mouse — but it is the best we have to cut through multi-app tasks on an 11"/13" laptop. With Exposé and an Apple trackpad, I have never felt overwhelmed even on my 1024x768 iBook, no matter how many windows I had open (and boy was Exposé fluid in 2005!).

Every attempt at using a "cleaner" screen layout on a laptop screen has failed spectacularly for me. How is Windows 8 any different from any other tiled window manager here? I see all my windows at once, but in exchange they are smaller (too small).

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#140

Post by josteink »

I think the worst thing about the Windows 8-feedback so far is that everyone is very dismissive about Metro as a whole.

Lots of people (me included) will tell you that Windows 8 is great and a solid upgrade from Windows 7. That there are improvements across the line, and that if you don't care about or don't like Metro, just don't use it.

People are assumed not to like Metro. People are told how to avoid it. If Windows 8 in any form succeeds based on that feedback, it would still be a failure for Microsoft, because the whole point of Windows 8 and the one thing they are actually trying to sell is Metro.

I'm not driven crazy by it, but I don't use it much. I don't use Metro-apps. When I was given a chance to sample a Microsoft Surface tablet, Metro made a whole lot more sense. But I'm not going to be using it on my laptop.

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