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Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

drive.com.au

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Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#131

Post by 2143 »

WalterBright wrote: post #113
2143 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re going off track, but I’m curious as to whether you experience this problem only on Apple devices, and not – for example – Android devices? (btw, it’s an honor to be able to reply to you; hope you’re doing well :) )

I have a cold, but all in all I'm doing very well. Thanks for asking! My portable electronics devices are Apple. But there are other touchscreen products I have, like the thermostat and the one in the car. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. Of course, buttons wear out. The membrane cracks or the conductive material rubs off. It happens with my computer keyboard. Fortunately, the keyboards are cheap and I replace the…

Wow.

> I often have to make repeated presses on my iphone until it registers.

This makes me really curious.

And you seem to have a problem with all your Apple devices. That’s why I wondered whether you’re experiencing that only with Apple or whether it happens with Android devices as well. Perhaps you could borrow a friend’s, or try using a demo phone at a store etc.

Also have other people use your problematic devices and see if they experience a problem.

I’d love to dig into this further with you (because, curiosity), but alas we live in different universes.

Wishing you a speedy recovery from your cold.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#132

Post by tribaal »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #52
grassfedgeek wrote: post #44

I hope Elon Musk can take a lesson from Mercedes. Tesla went in the other direction: there are barely any physical buttons to remove, so they removed the stalks for signaling and even for changing gear! You have to use the touch screen to shift gears!

Tesla does a great job not having buttons. I think the real issue is that other car companies have bad interfaces that make physical buttons necessary. Tesla just has a great UI that does not need physical buttons.

Exactly - I own a Tesla and an id.buzz and it’s just insulting how bad the user experience is on the buzz.

I don’t need buttons for the rear view mirrors or lights, I need them to do the right thing for me instead. VW not saving the position of the rear view mirrors on my profile is stupid. Having a hardware button for the seat position “profile” is stupid. Having walk away lock locking and unlocking the bus in a loop in you stay within range with the fob is stupid. Having a fob is stupid.

Those are the software issues you need to fix VW, if you ever want my business again.

Edit: and since people seem to care about AC buttons: the id.buzz has AC buttons! But they are right under the infotainment screen… and capacitive :) the Tesla’s screen is much easier to manipulate.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#133

Post by tw04 »

Tesla removed as many physical buttons and controls as possible to reduce cost and called it revolutionary. Their faithful parroted it because they loved Tesla.

Other manufacturers tried to copy it, and when any normal person had to interact with touch everything - the real opinions of how absolute garbage it was came out.

Having a big screen to display navigation and audio is awesome. Removing things like physical vents, volume control, gear selection, turn signal stalk - those are all idiotic decisions made to maximize margin on every car sold and COMPLETELY user hostile.

I'm just pleasantly surprised the germans listened to their customers.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#134

Post by yoyohello13 »

eurekin wrote: post #82

Never understood any appeal of a screen inside a car: 1. Reflections make you tilt, just to make some pesky highlights go away. Even if they are angled properly, there's always something (like a sun reflected by a watche's face) what causes nuissance at any angle 2. Car can go from a tunnel to a sunny valley in few seconds. That's 5 to 8 stops of dynamic range difference, that a human eye is easily designed to handle…

This is the main reason I haven’t bought a new car since 2005. I refuse to get anything with “smart features” or “infotainment” so I’m pretty much stuck until my current car dies. Then I’ll be forced to get something new, hopefully someone will manufacture a car with a sane UI with minimal features by then.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#135

Post by ajross »

aenis wrote: post #47

'He also explained that "I'm a big believer in screens, because I really believe if you want to connect, you have to make the magic work behind the screen." ' I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road. All the audio visual noise from the car is just plain dangerous. I don't want my car to draw my attentio…

> The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road

So, that's attractive as a slogan but it's 100% incorrect in practice. Non-road UI features like backup cameras and blind spot warning alarms save lives. Period.

Other stuff might be distracting on a screen where it isn't on a button. Switching the audio track instead of hitting the next button in your muscle memory might qualify, for example. But the reverse is also true. If you don't know where the control for something is, finding it on a screen is going to be faster than searching a panel, especially in the dark.

Cars are getting safer, not more dangerous, and nothing about the shift away from "physical buttons" has done anything to affect that trend. I'm very suspicious of sloganeering.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#136

Post by joe_mamba »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #29
Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #18

What I'm surprised by is that cars are chock-full of ornate, unique parts (cupholders are a good example). I would have imagined that car infotainment controls would be a small fraction of the BOM, so I've been wondering if it's not really a cost thing. Sort of like small phones or 3D TVs from the early 2000's.

If you can save a dollar on a part, and that part goes into millions of cars per year… then it will be on the chopping block. That cost and weight savings are then passed onto other things, better rear camera? More electrical current to charge your phone faster. Quicker HVAC operation? Everything is a compromise and tradeoff. Source - I work in an OEM.

>If you can save a dollar on a part, and that part goes into millions of cars per year… then it will be on the chopping block.

Mate, they're saving fractions of a cent on a part, let alone a dollar. You're probably getting promoted to CEO if you manage to save a dollar on a part. I've seen them cut 2mm of copper wiring in the ECU for the cost savings. 2mm!

Also worked for an OEM.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#137

Post by drstewart »

throw848tjfj wrote: post #45
riffraff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't heard of this china regulation. Perhaps we will have a "Beijing regulatory effect" positively impacting the world like the Bruxelles and California ones.

Already happening, best example is worldwide grounding of Boeing 737 MAX. It was China who triggered it, not US authorities (protecting US corporation). Similar thing with batteries on airplanes, tube trains, ferries and underground garages. China cares about fire hazard, other countries care about ideology.

Wow, that's amazing. What fire hazard are they preventing in their support for Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine?

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#138

Post by cmrdporcupine »

aenis wrote: post #47

'He also explained that "I'm a big believer in screens, because I really believe if you want to connect, you have to make the magic work behind the screen." ' I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road. All the audio visual noise from the car is just plain dangerous. I don't want my car to draw my attentio…

Truth.

Volvo's latest EX30 (and also the Polestar 4 I was in last week...) require you to use the touchscreen to just open the glovebox. How does that even make sense from a cost POV? They put in unnecessary servo motors for that? What made them think consumers wanted this? The EX30 is supposed to be their cost reduced rock bottom price car, and they wasted money on that? Screw you, Geely.

Google Maps pops up questionaires on me while I'm driving ("People reported police nearby, are they still there?")

You're seriously distracting me during my driving of a 4000lb machine at 100km/hr so you can data-collect from me? What's next? Surveys and YouTube style interstitial skippable ads when picking navigation targets?

I have no idea how they get away with this, it should have been flagged as a safety hazard. If the PM is on this forum, I'll tell you this: you should be ashamed. If I was still working at Google, I'd be on buganizer right now giving you hell.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#139

Post by b112 »

aenis wrote: post #101
ryandrake wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. I mean, there are product people who can do UI design for dangerous machinery. Put them back in charge. It seems like in the last decade, these product people were replaced with product people from Internet Attention-Monetizing companies and Gacha games, where you are rewarded if your product "attracted eyeballs" and "fuele…

Yes, you are right. All my power tools (from Makita, Milwuakee, Festool) have absolutely phenomenal UI - so there are still corners of industrial design where the dark patterns/attention grabbing product people haven't ventured. They should be brought back to car companies.

And I bet they were let go, when they tried to cite why all this change to no-buttons, attention-grabbing was wrong.

Upper management loves the "but everyone else is doing it" mentality, even if their mom would smack them aside the head for such logic.

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