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The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

theverge.com

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Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#131

Post by downbad_ »

chubot wrote: post #57
isoprophlex wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have three (gen A) kids, of which two are of the age to have opinions on this. They tell me I don't have a real job because I just tell the computer what to do, and I don't do the thing myself (to which I can't help but respond that they're absolutely right). If I try to spin them a bullshit story, they tell me how can that be true and maybe I got brainwashed by AI. Also they hate ads with a passion. If anything, I…

They tell me I don't have a real job because I just tell the computer what to do, and I don't do the thing myself (to which I can't help but respond that they're absolutely right) Hm interesting So they are making the distinction between regular "human brain" coding and AI-assisted coding? Regular coding could be described as "not doing the thing yourself, but telling the computer what to do" (FWIW I do think there i…

Hey, I sent you an email just now.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#132

Post by bccdee »

not_wyoming wrote: post #86
bccdee wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then how do you uncover bias in your chatbot? Do you ask it to analyze its own analysis? For that matter, what about the bias in your prompt, which LLMs tend to accept uncritically? Do your own preconceived opinions bias you against the argument made in the article? Are you using a chatbot to think critically about the article, or to avoid thinking critically about your own beliefs? > At the same time, 79 percent…

I actually did this - I plugged The Verge article into Claude and got the following critique of what biases are there: > The article accurately cites real Gallup data but selectively omits findings that complicate its "backlash" narrative — most notably that curiosity is Gen Z's single most common emotion toward AI, and that daily users remain substantially more hopeful and excited than the aggregate figures suggest.…

I'm honestly very impressed. You read these passages multiple times across composing two HN replies and did not, at any point, realize that curiosity is not an inherently positive emotion.

Curiosity is a "desire to know." We badly want to know about things that threaten us. People in 2020 were extremely curious about COVID-19, but that doesn't mean they liked it.

You might say, "well it's open for interpretation. It could be positive curiosity." But why stop there? Interpret: Anxiety is more common than anger, and anger is more common than excitement. Given a sample member who is anxious, angry, not excited, and not hopeful, do you think their curiosity is positively or negatively inflected?

Additionally, I don't know where Claude got the idea that "daily users remain substantially more hopeful and excited than the aggregate figures suggest." That's not in the data set, and a different data set will need to be interpreted separately.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you've completely failed to engage critically with either the article or with Claude. Claude misread the article and then affirmed its own misreading, and you took that all at face value.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#133

Post by adampunk »

wduquette wrote: post #129
adampunk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean…that’s essentially identical to group presentations in general. The other students didn’t do the work; what they don’t do the work with is irrelevant.

Except that in this case, the other students thought they had done the work. They put the time in, but in a different way than my daughter.

You don’t know that to be true. It doesn’t sound believable to me. It sounds like someone saying they thought they studied because they brought the book home and it was heavy in their backpack.

What I know is true is that neither of us has any insight into the interior life of those students. Even you have it secondhand from your daughter. You don’t know if they said that sheepishly, embarrassed at having been in exposed.

If we wanna argue that these tools made it a little bit easier to get away with not doing work then I’m in agreement. But so did PowerPoint. I had a lot of group presentations where it was somebody’s job to do the PowerPoint slides—often one of the easier jobs.

I guess I don’t know man. I’ve taught in college before the AI takeover and had lots of people that were bad at doing group projects. It’s pretty easy to get high and not do the work in college. With or without robots.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#134

Post by AuthAuth »

hirvi74 wrote: post #121
bccdee wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big difference between "your drawing skills will atrophy if you use CAD to draw for you" and "your brain will atrophy if you ask an LLM to think for you." Personally I don't judge people for being unable to draw, but I do judge them for being unable to think for themselves.

I can't believe I am about to post this comment, but I feel a compulsion: The human mind adapts the best it can for its environment. While not being able to think for oneself is highly detrimental, there may come a time in the distant future where strong abilities to think and reason are less valuable/important. I know it may come off as absolutely ridiculous, but I do not think (no pun intended) that such an uncomfo…

If we run with your theory that the human mind adapts and thinking becomes less valuable that should be setting off alarmbells. What kind of world would be one where thinking is not considered a valuable skill. If I thought that was true I would be in favour of restricting AI use to certain workflows.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#135

Post by bombcar »

hirvi74 wrote: post #122
bombcar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - but it’s part of it for me. Digging a giant hole would be real hard work, and something I can point at, but I might not be proud of it; it may have no point.

Sure, and my goal is to not that part away from you. Just to clarify, if said hole had no point, then would it be real work or not? What if the hole was merely a step in a grand plan? As in, if the end result provides a sense of pride, then does the aggregated amount of real vs. fake work that lead to final product have any bearing on the pride of the final product?

I guess it comes down to the teleology - the reason why the work is done. If the end has no relation to the work (e.g., it comes down to the dollars) then I think you’re going to be a bit unsatisfied no matter how well remunerated. Terms like “pointless” and “busywork” come into play.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#136

Post by array_key_first »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #65
wduquette wrote: post #55

My daughter's a senior in college. She recently was part of a group presentation; she did not use AI to prepare for it, but all of the other group members did. She was the only one who could answer follow-on questions. If you use AI to understand things for you, you're short-changing yourself.

Good for your daughter but doesn’t that example tell us the opposite of what this article is trying to argue? If the majority of a group of young people choose to use AI for their project, that doesn’t indicate that the majority hate it. That would indicate that they like and trust it.

You can use something and simultaneously hate it. For example, smoking.

That's not to say AI is addictive. It's probably not.

But, if all your classmates are using AI then maybe the workload increases to compensate. Then, you have no choice but to use AI. We see this pattern with companies all the time. They often don't want to advertise aggressively or employ dark patterns. But their competitors do, and then eventually the only way to stay competitive is to join them.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#138

Post by karakoram »

Insanity wrote: post #12

Paywalled so I can't read the article. However, is this exclusive to young people? I'm a millenial (early 90s) and I share their sentiment. I might not share it for the same reason though. Personally, I'm concerned about what AI usage would do to my cognitive ability, and as such I try to limit my use. I can't avoid using it at work (we're being tracked on "AI Adoption") and it does genuinely speed up some of my task…

https://archive.md/cThY7

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#140

Post by weikju »

jameslk wrote: post #116
Lyngbakr wrote: post #40

> They are being told, on the one hand, that these tools are going to eliminate millions of jobs, and on the other that they have to use them if they don’t want to fall behind. I'm currently reading a fascinating book called Blood In The Machine° about the Luddites who opposed certain technologies in 19th century England and the parallels with the current state of affairs. It's important to remember that while histor…

The nuance that’s talked less about is that both statements can be and likely will be true, but which way will the balance swing: 1. Many jobs will be eliminated (will they be offset by new jobs?) 2. The new technology will need to be adopted if you don’t want to fall behind (will there be less of these jobs or more?) In past circumstances like the one you mentioned, there were more jobs than before. Ultimately we al…

> In past circumstances like the one you mentioned, there were more jobs than before.

Were the jobs better or worse though?

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