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Maladaptive Frugality

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#131

Post by alphawhisky »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #123
anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. We managed to make the latter irrelevant or by no means a high earner. Everything is expensive, tech took over all the jobs, now tech itself has found ways to end those jobs. You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.

> You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.

Civil Engineer here. Used to get clowned on by other STEM students for going into one of the "lowest paying" engineering majors. Post grad, I can't imagine a more stable job, and my generational cohort is having a hard time. Boy do I feel smart. And the bonuses after construction season? Forget about it.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#132

Post by stronglikedan »

anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

I just replaced my five year old phone for the same reasons, but I haven't been able to let go of my old one yet. It still works so I must find something to use it for!

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#133

Post by Earw0rm »

wallst07 wrote: post #92
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I started driving my car had vinyl seats that you had to peel yourself out of on a hot day, a plastic steering wheel that you could barely touch when the sun was out, hand wound windows, fixed seat belts and a handbrake that barely worked. Even the cheapest car on the market feels luxurious now. In comparison the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus is marginal. Expensive cars are mostly about status signalli…

>Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling Uhm, only if you are counting the most basic utility, then you're right. However if you actually enjoy driving (A->A driving), there is a HGUE difference and it's not just signaling. It's that you probably can't tell the difference, or don't care. There is no comparison between driving a new Porsche or Bentley vs a new Toyota or even a Lexus.

When you actually get to drive it as it can be.

Maybe you live somewhere that's possible, or not too far from such a somewhere. Rare to find such places within 50 miles of a big city though, unless you're in Germany and have the autobahn.

I suspect most premium cars get to spend a tiny fraction of their mileage doing the kind of driving where they'd measurably beat a mid-market model.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#134

Post by Drdiamond »

The internet is amazing, I like to watch videos from developing nations, where people live on a fraction of western budgets... what strikes me is the happy, free people I see. That's hard to fake.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#135

Post by stronglikedan »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #123
anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. We managed to make the latter irrelevant or by no means a high earner. Everything is expensive, tech took over all the jobs, now tech itself has found ways to end those jobs. You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.

> You either have to be a medical professional

not even any longer, unfortunately

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#136

Post by catlogbindiff »

RickJWagner wrote: post #112

Spending money sparingly is like reducing weight in an automobile. A car will get better gas mileage, go faster, break less often, and be more responsive with less weight. So it is with spending. When you spend less, you can retire earlier, your finances are more secure, you feel less pressure and stress, etc. You have more flexibility in the kinds of jobs you can take. Perhaps best of all, you end up accumulating le…

Retiring early is a single guy internet myth. If you have a family, forget it. If you have a health condition, forget it. If you don’t have low risk investments, forget it. In the US health care can reset your bank account in the blink of an eye which is why so many many people in tech work until Medicare kicks in. Early retirement with a family is at least 10 mil in cash. Better enjoy your job because you’ll be doing it for a long time like 98% of Americans.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#137

Post by square_usual »

anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted

Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery instead of learning to be okay with living life when they can. I had these struggles too - I cut corners I didn't need to, and it took me a long time to internalize that I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s.

E: I'm editing to say this because like four different people have issued variations of the same response: the alternative to FIRE is *not* not saving! It's saving for your future while not aiming to retire early. Set a good target savings rate that will help you comfortably retire in your 60s, and spend the rest on things you care about. Let go of the mindset that any spending is taking years off your retirement.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#138

Post by frameset »

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #72
ehnto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found the "time is money" hourly rate comparisons a bit contrived, because I can't actually trade my every waking hour for an hourly rate. The reality for most people is that the trade-off is actually between time spent on looking for bargains, or time doing something else that doesn't make any money.

Back when I was younger and earned minimum wage, whenever I thought about buying something I'd run the calculation of how many hours I would need to work to pay for it. That helped me save quite a bit.

And now I'm older with a well paying job I find myself having to do the opposite calculation.

Things like, "Actually I will get an uber instead of the bus, so I can spend more time at the party."

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#139

Post by mft_ »

RickJWagner wrote: post #112

Spending money sparingly is like reducing weight in an automobile. A car will get better gas mileage, go faster, break less often, and be more responsive with less weight. So it is with spending. When you spend less, you can retire earlier, your finances are more secure, you feel less pressure and stress, etc. You have more flexibility in the kinds of jobs you can take. Perhaps best of all, you end up accumulating le…

I like your analogy; but of course, there comes a point where reducing weight in an automobile does have downsides: it might be more noisy because of reduced sound deadening, less safe because of removal of crash structures, less waterproof because of removed seals, and so on.

The point being, in both cases, the virtue lies in finding the optimal balance: maximising the benefits of frugality without going too far and falling down the other side of the curve.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#140

Post by bluefirebrand »

anticorporate wrote: post #126
adithyassekhar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. We managed to make the latter irrelevant or by no means a high earner. Everything is expensive, tech took over all the jobs, now tech itself has found ways to end those jobs. You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.

> You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not? I suppose there's some small element of worrying that I'm wrong about my future needs . I know I have some skills that are still useful and I can put them to work now, but…

> I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not?

Devils Advocate: Why don't you feel guilty for continuing to work, continuing to absorb a salary that doesn't really matter for you but could be life changing for someone else who is looking for their chance?

Just a slightly different perspective

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