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Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

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Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#131

Post by chillfox »

waterproof wrote: post #128
chillfox wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol, the big problem with kubernetes is that none of the choices have been made, it's not opinionated at all, there's no conventions. It's all configuration and choices all the way down. There's way too much yaml, and way to many choices for ever tiny component, it's just too much. I do run a k3s cluster for home stuff... But I really wish I could get what it provides in a much simpler solution. My dream solution wou…

In what cases do you need autoscaling on your home stuff?

I have limited ram and want scale to zero for apps that use a lot of ram, but I only use one of at a time like game servers, or things that can be done over night while I sleep like media encoding.

The main reason I went to k8s, is for the not having to think about what machine will have enough resources to run an app, just throw it at the cluster and it figures out where there's capacity. And, I want hardware failing/getting replaced to be a non issue.

edit: I wanted to add that my hobby is not systems admin, I want it to be as hands off as possible. Self-hosting is a means to an end. I have so far saved over $200/month in subscriptions by replacing subscriptions I was using with self-hosted alternatives. I can now use that money on my actual hobbies.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#132

Post by hedora »

chillfox wrote: post #127
zmmmmm wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of those choices have been made and agreed upon Have they really? I have a few apps deployed on k8s and I feel like every time I need something, it turns out it doesn't do that and I'm into some exotic extension or plugin type ecosystem. Something as simple as service autoscaling (this was a few years ago) was an adventure into DIY. Moving from google cloud to AWS was a complete writeoff almost - just build it…

Yep, this is my main problem with k8s, it really feels like none of the choices have been made, it's all chose and configure components.

This, and because of that, claiming your app "runs in kubernetes" is completely meaningless.

Concretely: Take your app. With one button click, or apt-get install ??? on all your machines, configure k8s. Now, run your app.

The idea that this could work has been laughable for any k8s production environment I've seen, which means you can't do things like write automated tests that inject failures into the etcd control plane, etc.

(Yes, I know there are chaos-monkey things, but they can't simulate realistic failures like kernel panics or machine reboots, because that'd impact other tenants of the Kubernetes cluster, which, realistically, is probably single tenant, but I digress..)

If your configuration is megabytes of impossible to understand YAML, and is also not portable to other environments, then what's the point?

(I understand the point for vendors in the ecosystem: People pay them for things like CNI and CSI, which replace Linux's network + storage primitives with slower, more complicated stuff that has worse fault tolerance semantics. Again, I digress...)

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#133

Post by johntash »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #24
srcreigh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be a case of the XY problem. What do you need cleanups and hooks for?

Cleanups: I want to do a `helm uninstall` and have all the manifests go away at once instead of looking around for N different resources. Hooks: I want to apply my database migrations and populate the database with static datasets before I deploy my application, without having my CI connect to the database cluster (at places I've worked, the CI cluster and K8s cluster were completely separate).

> apply my database migrations and populate the database with static datasets before I deploy my application

You could a) have the app acquire a lock in the db and do its own migrations, or b) create a k8s job that runs the migration tool, but make sure the app waits for the schema to be updated or at least won't do anything bad.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#134

Post by jurgenburgen »

0x457 wrote: post #99
vbezhenar wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ingress is being deprecated Do you have any links about Ingress being deprecated? Official docs here: https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/kubernetes-api/service-... There are no mentions about this API being deprecated.

Ingress resource is bassicaly "implementation specific" and isn't portable. It's not deprecated now, but there plans to retire ingress-nginx: https://kubernetes.io/blog/2025/11/11/ingress-nginx-retireme... Anyway, Ingress resource been in "Migrate to Gateway" state for awhile.

> but there plans to retire ingress-nginx

To clarify, it’s already retired and the repo has been archived since 24th of March.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#135

Post by turtlebits »

gzread wrote: post #130
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use k8s on $2/mo digital ocean projects. It probably even works on the free tier of a lot of providers. And there's zero setup. Just a deployment yaml that specifies exactly what you want deployed, which has the benefit of easy version control. I don't get why people are so bent on hating Kubernetes. The mental cost to deploy a 6-line deployment yaml is less than futzing around with FTP and nginx. Kube is the…

> And there's zero setup. Just a deployment yaml that specifies exactly what you want deployed Writing this yaml is hours and hours of setup if you can't ctrl+c/v from your last project

AI is especially good at writing IaC. Most small projects I let it write a Dockerfile too.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#136

Post by turtlebits »

chillfox wrote: post #126
cortesoft wrote: post #11

This is obviously slightly exaggerated, but I do feel like this whenever people dismiss Kubernetes as either too complicated or not needed. The response I always got when suggesting Kubernetes is "you can do all those things without Kubernetes" Sure, of course. There are a million different ways to do everything Kubernetes does, and some of them might be simpler or fit your use case more perfectly. You can make diffe…

lol, the big problem with kubernetes is that none of the choices have been made, it's not opinionated at all, there's no conventions. It's all configuration and choices all the way down. There's way too much yaml, and way to many choices for ever tiny component, it's just too much. I do run a k3s cluster for home stuff... But I really wish I could get what it provides in a much simpler solution. My dream solution wou…

You're going to have to write some sort of config. It not being opinionated it a good thing. It lets you deploy just about anything under the sun.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#137

Post by wg0 »

Docker swarm is good enough for most cases if the black plague called Microservices isn't in your stack.

Basecamp is running successfully with Kamal and surely making more money than all the Kubernetes experts combined on this platform.

Small companies should not behave and pretend like big enterprises. Maybe Kubernetes is justified in those scenarios.

But for 95% of the population, it's an overkill and a constantly moving target.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#138

Post by wg0 »

et1337 wrote: post #4

The saddest part about Kubernetes is… after you set it all up, you still need a hacky deploy.sh to sed in the image tag to deploy! And pretty soon you’re back to “my dear friend you have built a Helm”. And so the configuration clock continues ticking…

Anyone remembers the GitOps thingy called flux? Weave was the company name.

Git and Kubetnetes configuration cannot go hand in hand. You cannot go back in past indefinitely because cluster state might not be that reversible. If so, git is useless.

And no, doesn't apply for database migrations. You can mostly run migrations backwards if each migration was written carefully.

Re: Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes (2024)

#139

Post by dev_l1x_be »

cortesoft wrote: post #11

This is obviously slightly exaggerated, but I do feel like this whenever people dismiss Kubernetes as either too complicated or not needed. The response I always got when suggesting Kubernetes is "you can do all those things without Kubernetes" Sure, of course. There are a million different ways to do everything Kubernetes does, and some of them might be simpler or fit your use case more perfectly. You can make diffe…

My take is that k8s the idea is okish the implementation on the other hand not that much.

This comes down to that fact that software architecture is not great in general and very few people care about simplicity.

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