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Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

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Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#131

Post by anigbrowl »

whatshisface wrote: post #90
_doctor_love wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should they also be able to draft you for some free labor if there's no war or other emergency going on? You can only prepare for a fire before it starts.

In the conventional view, the earliest preparations for war involve building a strong industrial base, reducing corruption, and securing alliances through cooperative foreign policy. The near-term preparations for war include diverting a fraction of total resources away from compounding growth and towards non-compounding defense manufacturing. A draft is something you do after the war starts. The strategic idea is to…

There are other bases besides war for national service, eg disaster prep, taking care of the poor and so on. In any case, being somewhat prepared for war at the human level and understanding what that entails is more productive that not being prepared and having to educate people in an unwelcome emergency.

The same goes for replacing the first two years of professional school with standing around in a big shed.

Exaggerated tropes like this don't make for useful discussion.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#132

Post by boelboel »

_doctor_love wrote: post #36
wahnfrieden wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not how conscription is ever implemented in practice.

Of course it's not. Once upon a time quite long ago kings and generals got on the field. But as we industrialized leadership moved to "the back." See concepts like Auftragstaktik , command intent, mission command.

Not even that long ago, nobility died at higher rates than normal people in ww1 and ww2. Many lines were killed during them. I still know of nobles in my own country in the army. Generals died in WW2 at a decent rate as well.

Nobility lost most relevance now so I'm sure it's different now, owning a castle or a weird last name doesn't make you rich or powerful.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#133

Post by Danox »

causal wrote: post #42
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

I like the idea of civic engagement / service in theory too, but I feel like the Vietnam war was a demonstration of possible failure modes when draft is in place: a lot of poor kids died, some rich kids allegedly used parental influence to dodge the draft. No incentive for leaders to avoid war while loop holes remain for their own interests.

The word allegedly should be dropped many ie.. Taco got out of it, however much better men John McCain, John Kerry, and Robert Mueller did not. Serving is okay if everyone serves no exceptions.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#135

Post by dualvariable »

Drupon wrote: post #80
causal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of civic engagement / service in theory too, but I feel like the Vietnam war was a demonstration of possible failure modes when draft is in place: a lot of poor kids died, some rich kids allegedly used parental influence to dodge the draft. No incentive for leaders to avoid war while loop holes remain for their own interests.

People greatly overestimate the number of Vietnam vets who were drafted.

It isn't the number that were drafted that matters. It is the number who were enrolled who might have been drafted that matters.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#136

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #96
_doctor_love wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should they also be able to draft you for some free labor if there's no war or other emergency going on? You can only prepare for a fire before it starts.

Sure, but you also don't keep 1.3 million firefighters idling in case of a really big fire.

Don't we? That is pretty close to the number of firefighters in the US, and they rarely fight fires

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#137

Post by dylan604 »

criddell wrote: post #11

Wars used to be paid for by raising taxes. Now we have no idea how much they cost. How many years in a row has the Pentagon failed it's audit? How many years (decades?) was the Iraq war funded through annual (unbudgeted) emergency measures? How many trillions in promised healthcare does America owe its veterans? If the President had to make the case that taking on Iran would cost each American around $1000 on top of…

> Be honest about the actual costs of war and chances are we will get into fewer.

This is a naive comment. The people deciding to send people to war do not concern themselves with the costs. The people concerned about the cost have no say in deciding to start military conflicts.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#138

Post by JohnTHaller »

criddell wrote: post #11

Wars used to be paid for by raising taxes. Now we have no idea how much they cost. How many years in a row has the Pentagon failed it's audit? How many years (decades?) was the Iraq war funded through annual (unbudgeted) emergency measures? How many trillions in promised healthcare does America owe its veterans? If the President had to make the case that taking on Iran would cost each American around $1000 on top of…

The current administration can't even be honest about the fact that we're in a war, so there's no way they're gonna be honest about the costs.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#140

Post by dylan604 »

robotburrito wrote: post #37

Doesn’t ycombinator and hacker news have links with this company? Makes it hard to maintain the hacker ethos when this entire site seems so closely linked with such forces.

as a counter, it is exactly the hacker ethos to take something and use it not as expected by those that made it so that it can be used for their own purpose
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